Frams
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The Extended Guard is like $9.99 at my walmart, but yeah, the Extended Guard filters have metal end caps which begs the question why, if fiber end caps are the cats pajamas, would fram go to the expense and hassle of using metal end caps on their top of the line filter?
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This is getting old. The actual filter media is made of paper or paper like material and doesn't break. That would mean that the presumably tougher cardboard end caps wouldn't break.
I don't know about you, but it's easier to glue paper to paper than it is to glue paper to slick metal with no pours.
The extended guard filter has metal end caps because it is for EXTENDED DRAINS. That is a precaution because everyone has different definitions of extended drains. Better to be safe than sorry.
I know for the money, better filters can be found, but Fram is far from being a bad product.
I don't know about you, but it's easier to glue paper to paper than it is to glue paper to slick metal with no pours.
The extended guard filter has metal end caps because it is for EXTENDED DRAINS. That is a precaution because everyone has different definitions of extended drains. Better to be safe than sorry.
I know for the money, better filters can be found, but Fram is far from being a bad product.
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Originally Posted By: TurboLuver
The Extended Guard is like $9.99 at my walmart, but yeah, the Extended Guard filters have metal end caps which begs the question why, if fiber end caps are the cats pajamas, would fram go to the expense and hassle of using metal end caps on their top of the line filter?
Around here they've been markdown priced to $7.50. They are also sealed with plastic. Funny, I've actually seen at least one sealed box opened and when I looked in, there sat the orange can. It appeared someone had done a swap out. lol
Now that would be an orange can box with a filter in it worth the price.
The Extended Guard is like $9.99 at my walmart, but yeah, the Extended Guard filters have metal end caps which begs the question why, if fiber end caps are the cats pajamas, would fram go to the expense and hassle of using metal end caps on their top of the line filter?
Around here they've been markdown priced to $7.50. They are also sealed with plastic. Funny, I've actually seen at least one sealed box opened and when I looked in, there sat the orange can. It appeared someone had done a swap out. lol
Now that would be an orange can box with a filter in it worth the price.
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If the Extended Guard filter is $7.50 I'll stick to a Pure One from Amazon.com, or as one of oil/filter deals AAP and Auto Zone offered with PP.
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If Frams are SOOOOO bad as many of you say why dont we hear a bunch of oil filter failures from them.....I sure dont hear it on TV or automotive magazines or even consumer reports...
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Because something can do a [censored] job without completely failing.
Nobody is saying a Fram is going to leave you stuck on the side of the road. All anybody is saying is that at best, the Fram will work the same as other cheap filters. Because if it's smaller filter media area, it probably will get saturated with particles sooner (which may or may not be an issue) than other cheap filters. And they cost more than other cheap filters.
So for the cheapest frams, you're paying more for an inferior product. And who would be on board with that?
For the better frams, I don't know. They look to be a reasonable buy, but I get napa gold for 6 bucks and don't look back.
Nobody is saying a Fram is going to leave you stuck on the side of the road. All anybody is saying is that at best, the Fram will work the same as other cheap filters. Because if it's smaller filter media area, it probably will get saturated with particles sooner (which may or may not be an issue) than other cheap filters. And they cost more than other cheap filters.
So for the cheapest frams, you're paying more for an inferior product. And who would be on board with that?
For the better frams, I don't know. They look to be a reasonable buy, but I get napa gold for 6 bucks and don't look back.
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Hey everone has a cheap line....I use NAPA GOLD also....but they aslo have a cheaper NAPA silver....So fram has a cheap one and a good one....what is the big deal so do many other companies....I still dont see a bunch of failures with the Fram filters on the web or in the media...
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Originally Posted By: bepperb
Because something can do a [censored] job without completely failing.
Nobody is saying a Fram is going to leave you stuck on the side of the road. All anybody is saying is that at best, the Fram will work the same as other cheap filters. Because if it's smaller filter media area, it probably will get saturated with particles sooner (which may or may not be an issue) than other cheap filters. And they cost more than other cheap filters.
So for the cheapest frams, you're paying more for an inferior product. And who would be on board with that?
For the better frams, I don't know. They look to be a reasonable buy, but I get napa gold for 6 bucks and don't look back.
Again, we are going on assumptions. Do you have scientific proof that Fram, filters less, or more than other filters. Assumptions are not hard proof. Many new cars glue their panels together. Does that make them inferior to bolted on body panels?
I remember on this board that Valvoline was a inferior oil and was bashed quite a bit. Today it is a great oil. The good thing about oil is that we have used oil analysis to prove an oils performance. We do not have one for filters.
Because something can do a [censored] job without completely failing.
Nobody is saying a Fram is going to leave you stuck on the side of the road. All anybody is saying is that at best, the Fram will work the same as other cheap filters. Because if it's smaller filter media area, it probably will get saturated with particles sooner (which may or may not be an issue) than other cheap filters. And they cost more than other cheap filters.
So for the cheapest frams, you're paying more for an inferior product. And who would be on board with that?
For the better frams, I don't know. They look to be a reasonable buy, but I get napa gold for 6 bucks and don't look back.
Again, we are going on assumptions. Do you have scientific proof that Fram, filters less, or more than other filters. Assumptions are not hard proof. Many new cars glue their panels together. Does that make them inferior to bolted on body panels?
I remember on this board that Valvoline was a inferior oil and was bashed quite a bit. Today it is a great oil. The good thing about oil is that we have used oil analysis to prove an oils performance. We do not have one for filters.
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I'm not assuming the media area on a fram filter is smaller than on a purolator filter. It is. It's not science. It's a ruler.
If valvoline only gave you 14 ounces in a quart container, then that would be the same thing.
Of course, we'd have people saying "you're assuming that 14 ounces of valvoline isn't as good as 16 ouces of Pennzoil" which is basically what some are saying in this thread.
If valvoline only gave you 14 ounces in a quart container, then that would be the same thing.
Of course, we'd have people saying "you're assuming that 14 ounces of valvoline isn't as good as 16 ouces of Pennzoil" which is basically what some are saying in this thread.
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Originally Posted By: The Critic
I really don't care about what the filter dissections say. There are many ways to build a filter.
I would like to see someone run a FRAM, SuperTech and a Purolator Premium Plus and do particle counts and see if there are any significant differences. I suspect that the performance will be comparable between the three.
I agree that FRAM is a poor value, but it doesn't mean that it's a bad filter. I think it'll perform just as well as any other cheap filter.
This is a valid point. I think most people that have even heard of used oil analysis don't run Frams. How about our Canadian friends with less choice? Does anybody have any numbers where you were running a Fram?
LABman spends much more time in dog forums. There I tell people to judge a dog food by looking at the dog, not the list of ingredients. Those posting from Starbucks while drinking their $4 coffees hate me for pointing out that the service dog schools' dogs are thriving on foods maybe equivalent to Purolator Premium Plus. The Starbucks crowd doesn't have any numbers backing the $50 a bag chows with free range organic lamb.
I really don't care about what the filter dissections say. There are many ways to build a filter.
I would like to see someone run a FRAM, SuperTech and a Purolator Premium Plus and do particle counts and see if there are any significant differences. I suspect that the performance will be comparable between the three.
I agree that FRAM is a poor value, but it doesn't mean that it's a bad filter. I think it'll perform just as well as any other cheap filter.
This is a valid point. I think most people that have even heard of used oil analysis don't run Frams. How about our Canadian friends with less choice? Does anybody have any numbers where you were running a Fram?
LABman spends much more time in dog forums. There I tell people to judge a dog food by looking at the dog, not the list of ingredients. Those posting from Starbucks while drinking their $4 coffees hate me for pointing out that the service dog schools' dogs are thriving on foods maybe equivalent to Purolator Premium Plus. The Starbucks crowd doesn't have any numbers backing the $50 a bag chows with free range organic lamb.
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Originally Posted By: Autobahn88
Originally Posted By: SuperBusa
Originally Posted By: bigdreama
Quote:
Millions and Millions of miles have been driven with these "junk filters". Yes the end caps are cardboard or whatever but if a glue will glue paper to metal shouldn't it glue paper to cardboard? Also if I am remembering my physics correctly, isn't pressure applied in all directions. If the pressure in a filter was going to deform the fram endcaps wouldn't it also do the same to the filter media anyway?
This post sure makes sense to me. Would anyone else care to explain why the endcaps need to be stronger than the filtering media itself?
I've recently learned that Nissan OEM oil filters are now made in China and they have cardboard end caps like a FRAM. Scary ... especially at about $10~$11 a pop. Of course they must perform well if Nissan is going to warranty their cars using them.
I think that you will see more companies use the fiber(cardboard)end caps. I have seen a Mann filter with fiber endcaps. You have to understand that the end caps are not everyday cardboard. Alot of the OEM filters in Canada are indeed made by Fram. Do you think Mazda, Honda, Toyota etc would allow Fram to make OEM filters for them if Frams failed all the time and were junk?
In Canada we do not have the luxury of the number of cheaper filters that our American friends have. Fram is the cheapest filter here.
According to the parts counter guy at my honda dealer, FRAM was an oem filter mfr for honda oil filters (well, parent company allied telesyn). 3 years back they changed to different manufacturer. Said they were seeing TOO MANY FILTERS DISINTEGRATE CAUSING ENGINE DAMAGE.
When I bought the car a cpl yrs prior the sales guy even told me that diy service is fine, keep receipts, but... said he didn't know specifics but knew Honda was dealing with a bunch of oil filter -engine damage claims-- so he wasn't sure why but for liability purposes suggested buying the honda filters... so even then, before they switched, while he didn't understand the whole shebang he'd even heard of filter failures.
m
Originally Posted By: SuperBusa
Originally Posted By: bigdreama
Quote:
Millions and Millions of miles have been driven with these "junk filters". Yes the end caps are cardboard or whatever but if a glue will glue paper to metal shouldn't it glue paper to cardboard? Also if I am remembering my physics correctly, isn't pressure applied in all directions. If the pressure in a filter was going to deform the fram endcaps wouldn't it also do the same to the filter media anyway?
This post sure makes sense to me. Would anyone else care to explain why the endcaps need to be stronger than the filtering media itself?
I've recently learned that Nissan OEM oil filters are now made in China and they have cardboard end caps like a FRAM. Scary ... especially at about $10~$11 a pop. Of course they must perform well if Nissan is going to warranty their cars using them.
I think that you will see more companies use the fiber(cardboard)end caps. I have seen a Mann filter with fiber endcaps. You have to understand that the end caps are not everyday cardboard. Alot of the OEM filters in Canada are indeed made by Fram. Do you think Mazda, Honda, Toyota etc would allow Fram to make OEM filters for them if Frams failed all the time and were junk?
In Canada we do not have the luxury of the number of cheaper filters that our American friends have. Fram is the cheapest filter here.
According to the parts counter guy at my honda dealer, FRAM was an oem filter mfr for honda oil filters (well, parent company allied telesyn). 3 years back they changed to different manufacturer. Said they were seeing TOO MANY FILTERS DISINTEGRATE CAUSING ENGINE DAMAGE.
When I bought the car a cpl yrs prior the sales guy even told me that diy service is fine, keep receipts, but... said he didn't know specifics but knew Honda was dealing with a bunch of oil filter -engine damage claims-- so he wasn't sure why but for liability purposes suggested buying the honda filters... so even then, before they switched, while he didn't understand the whole shebang he'd even heard of filter failures.
m
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BAD!!!!!
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Wow, I have never been quoted before!
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Originally Posted By: jshaw
Wow, I have never been quoted before!
May I quote you on that?
Wow, I have never been quoted before!
May I quote you on that?
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Fram, bwa-ha-ha-ha-ha!
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Fram Tough Guard have much better media and a silicone ADBV.
Here are some examples for comparison:
Fram Toughguard TG3593A 99% Multipass Efficiency at 20 microns
Amsoil 98.7% Multipass Efficiency at 15 microns
WIX 51334 50% multipass efficiency at 22 microns and 95% multipass efficiency at 40 microns.
The Fram TG still have the cardboard end caps though
Here are some examples for comparison:
Fram Toughguard TG3593A 99% Multipass Efficiency at 20 microns
Amsoil 98.7% Multipass Efficiency at 15 microns
WIX 51334 50% multipass efficiency at 22 microns and 95% multipass efficiency at 40 microns.
The Fram TG still have the cardboard end caps though
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Originally Posted By: meep
\According to the parts counter guy at my honda dealer, FRAM was an oem filter mfr for honda oil filters (well, parent company allied telesyn). 3 years back they changed to different manufacturer. Said they were seeing TOO MANY FILTERS DISINTEGRATE CAUSING ENGINE DAMAGE.
And we know ONE guy standing at a parts counter would have inside knowledge of all this. Oh wait, it would all be hear say.
I can go to 20 Honda dealers and they will all give me different answers as to who makes the filters. I believe we can label this as RUMOR, sense the isn't any evidence aside from some guy standing behind a counter with a boring job that will say anything to strike up a conversation.
If I had a dollar for everytime I heard something dumb from a dealer mechanic or parts guy.....
\According to the parts counter guy at my honda dealer, FRAM was an oem filter mfr for honda oil filters (well, parent company allied telesyn). 3 years back they changed to different manufacturer. Said they were seeing TOO MANY FILTERS DISINTEGRATE CAUSING ENGINE DAMAGE.
And we know ONE guy standing at a parts counter would have inside knowledge of all this. Oh wait, it would all be hear say.
I can go to 20 Honda dealers and they will all give me different answers as to who makes the filters. I believe we can label this as RUMOR, sense the isn't any evidence aside from some guy standing behind a counter with a boring job that will say anything to strike up a conversation.
If I had a dollar for everytime I heard something dumb from a dealer mechanic or parts guy.....
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Fram filters are fine - if you can get past the cardboard end cap issue. Keep in mind that the oil pressure pushing the oil through the media is also pushing the end caps tightly against the media. At 10 psi there would be about 60 lbs of force pushing on each end cap given a 3" diameter.
Here is some more data to chew on:
Fram Extra Guard PH5 Fram
ADBV material: Nitrile
Filter area: 183 sq/in
Average pore size: 32.5 µm
Smallest pore size: 14 µm
WIX 51086
Filter area: 185 sq/in
ADBV material: Silicon
Average pore size: 35 µm
Smallest pore size: 16 µm
Fram Tough Guard TG5
ADBV material: Silicon
Filter area: 274 sq/in
Average pore size: 26 µm
Smallest pore size: 12 µm
Purolator PureOne PL34631
ADBV material: Silicon
Filter area: 330 sq/in
Average pore size: 24 µm
Smallest pore size: 11 µm
Seems to me that the Fram Tough Guard is a pretty good filter.
I got the data from this site:
http://www.offshoreonly.com/forums/general-q/86056-oil-filter-study-2.html
Here is some more data to chew on:
Fram Extra Guard PH5 Fram
ADBV material: Nitrile
Filter area: 183 sq/in
Average pore size: 32.5 µm
Smallest pore size: 14 µm
WIX 51086
Filter area: 185 sq/in
ADBV material: Silicon
Average pore size: 35 µm
Smallest pore size: 16 µm
Fram Tough Guard TG5
ADBV material: Silicon
Filter area: 274 sq/in
Average pore size: 26 µm
Smallest pore size: 12 µm
Purolator PureOne PL34631
ADBV material: Silicon
Filter area: 330 sq/in
Average pore size: 24 µm
Smallest pore size: 11 µm
Seems to me that the Fram Tough Guard is a pretty good filter.
I got the data from this site:
http://www.offshoreonly.com/forums/general-q/86056-oil-filter-study-2.html
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Could be. I have cut open my own filters and PF 1177's have 3 times the area of the last PH 3950 I ever bought.
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