Frams

[Ausfahrt]

Quote:
Millions and Millions of miles have been driven with these "junk filters". Yes the end caps are cardboard or whatever but if a glue will glue paper to metal shouldn't it glue paper to cardboard? Also if I am remembering my physics correctly, isn't pressure applied in all directions. If the pressure in a filter was going to deform the fram endcaps wouldn't it also do the same to the filter media anyway?




This post sure makes sense to me. Would anyone else care to explain why the endcaps need to be stronger than the filtering media itself?

 

[bepperb]

The cardboard endcaps are fine. That statement is fine.

The biggest problem with Frams is that the surface area of the filtering media is so much smaller than other cheap filters like Purolater Premium Plus or Napa silver.

They do suck, but not because of the end caps.

And for the record, cardboard may be "good enough" for many applications. But if I can get a metal part for the same price...

 

[Johnny]

For general automotive application it does not. Plus, the end caps on FRAM filters is not your every day garden variety cardboard.

 

[The Critic]

Originally Posted By: bepperb

The biggest problem with Frams is that the surface area of the filtering media is so much smaller than other cheap filters like Purolater Premium Plus or Napa silver.

Without knowing the quality/grade of media in the filters, you cannot assume that the smaller surface area is an issue.

 

[03cvpi]

On all the frams I have cut open, I have had a half dozen or so, that the glue pulled loose from the end cap allowing unfiltered oil to reach the engine. Usually this from from a vehicle that had the oil filter run an extended amount of mileage or more importantly time. One of the filters had been on the car for 2+ years with only 1200 miles on the oil and the filter media had ripped away from the endcap. For the same or a little more money you can get a better filter with more media and metal endcaps. I have had a few pure one filters where the media has come loose from the metal endcap also, but this was because of lack of sufficient glue and I sent those filters to purolator with a nasty note. I would use an orange can of death in a pinch, but I prefer a little better quality. My biggest beef is with the cruddy ADBV they seem to use.

 

[The Critic]

Originally Posted By: 03cvpi
One of the filters had been on the car for 2+ years with only 1200 miles on the oil and the filter media had ripped away from the endcap.

Ding Ding Ding...

The glue has a time limit as well when it's exposed to oil. That's why it is recommended that you change the oil at least annually (regardless of miles), to prevent situations like these.

 

[dwendt44]

the filtering effeciency both single pass and multi-pass is on par with other filters in it's price range.
The media itself is PAPER.
The main complaint is that other filters are a better value.

 

[bepperb]

"Without knowing the quality/grade of media in the filters, you cannot assume that the smaller surface area is an issue. "

My assumption is that the filter media was the same.

But now that you mention it, it's probably more likely than not it's of worse quality, when one considers it's smaller size, the cardboard endcaps, plastic bypass valve, and most obviously the quality of the holes and surface of the backplate.

Of course, you're free to assume that everything else about the toughguard is made to the bare minimum, but they choose only the finest grade of filter material. But taking one apart may change your mind...

 

[labman]

Originally Posted By: The Critic
Originally Posted By: bepperb

The biggest problem with Frams is that the surface area of the filtering media is so much smaller than other cheap filters like Purolater Premium Plus or Napa silver.

Without knowing the quality/grade of media in the filters, you cannot assume that the smaller surface area is an issue.


Good point. How much difference is there between the best and worst media? I have found most of the common filters, ST, purolator, other champs have about twice the area the Fram does. AC's have 3 times as much. Does anybody think Fram uses 3 times as good of filter media?

Also, efficiency is measured with new filters. What is the efficiency after the limited media area is blinded with particles and the bypass is open to maintain flow? Until I see some data on media quality, I will run AC's if I can find them and otherwise ST or Purolator.

 

[The Critic]

Originally Posted By: dwendt44
the filtering effeciency both single pass and multi-pass is on par with other filters in it's price range.
The media itself is PAPER.
The main complaint is that other filters are a better value.

Same thing with single-pass and multi-pass efficiency. I think Filter Guy discussed this a few years ago. Those percentages are also dependent on what microns the efficiency is being measured at.

 

[Sayjac]

Originally Posted By: dwendt44

The main complaint is that other filters are a better value.
+1 And that is the point.

Why would I buy a Fram when I can get better for the same or even less money?

Case in point, AAP Total grip for $2.88, compare it to a Fram of the same size which costs more. Between the two, which would you buy?

And the Motorcraft for the about the same money, not even close IMO.

Compare them in the link to cut open filters.

http://home.mindspring.com/~cewhite3nc/id15.html

 

[The Critic]

I really don't care about what the filter dissections say. There are many ways to build a filter.

I would like to see someone run a FRAM, SuperTech and a Purolator Premium Plus and do particle counts and see if there are any significant differences. I suspect that the performance will be comparable between the three.

I agree that FRAM is a poor value, but it doesn't mean that it's a bad filter. I think it'll perform just as well as any other cheap filter.

 

[postjeeprcr]

Originally Posted By: The Critic
I really don't care about what the filter dissections say. There are many ways to build a filter.

I would like to see someone run a FRAM, SuperTech and a Purolator Premium Plus and do particle counts and see if there are any significant differences. I suspect that the performance will be comparable between the three.

I agree that FRAM is a poor value, but it doesn't mean that it's a bad filter. I think it'll perform just as well as any other cheap filter.


Best way to see something done is to do it yourself.

 

[Ibrahim]

up here in Canada thy sell FRAM Extended Guard under the name of FRAM Synthetic oil filter for 15 bux.....i cannot imagine paying that much money when I can get K&N or for few extra dollars can get Amsoil Ea0 filters!

 

[Badlees]

If cardboard end caps were good enough, they would be the rule and not the exception. That's all I'm sayin'.

 

[SuperBusa]

Originally Posted By: bigdreama
Quote:
Millions and Millions of miles have been driven with these "junk filters". Yes the end caps are cardboard or whatever but if a glue will glue paper to metal shouldn't it glue paper to cardboard? Also if I am remembering my physics correctly, isn't pressure applied in all directions. If the pressure in a filter was going to deform the fram endcaps wouldn't it also do the same to the filter media anyway?


This post sure makes sense to me. Would anyone else care to explain why the endcaps need to be stronger than the filtering media itself?


I've recently learned that Nissan OEM oil filters are now made in China and they have cardboard end caps like a FRAM. Scary ... especially at about $10~$11 a pop. Of course they must perform well if Nissan is going to warranty their cars using them.

 

[Autobahn88]

Originally Posted By: SuperBusa
Originally Posted By: bigdreama
Quote:
Millions and Millions of miles have been driven with these "junk filters". Yes the end caps are cardboard or whatever but if a glue will glue paper to metal shouldn't it glue paper to cardboard? Also if I am remembering my physics correctly, isn't pressure applied in all directions. If the pressure in a filter was going to deform the fram endcaps wouldn't it also do the same to the filter media anyway?


This post sure makes sense to me. Would anyone else care to explain why the endcaps need to be stronger than the filtering media itself?


I've recently learned that Nissan OEM oil filters are now made in China and they have cardboard end caps like a FRAM. Scary ... especially at about $10~$11 a pop. Of course they must perform well if Nissan is going to warranty their cars using them.


I think that you will see more companies use the fiber(cardboard)end caps. I have seen a Mann filter with fiber endcaps. You have to understand that the end caps are not everyday cardboard. Alot of the OEM filters in Canada are indeed made by Fram. Do you think Mazda, Honda, Toyota etc would allow Fram to make OEM filters for them if Frams failed all the time and were junk?
In Canada we do not have the luxury of the number of cheaper filters that our American friends have. Fram is the cheapest filter here.

 

[SuperBusa]

I haven't used FRAM oil filters for years. Since then, I see lots of higher end FRAM oil filters lines out there. Does FRAM use the cardboard end caps on all of their oil filters, or just the lower end ones?

 

[Sayjac]

Originally Posted By: SuperBusa
I've recently learned that Nissan OEM oil filters are now made in China and they have cardboard end caps like a FRAM. Scary ... especially at about $10~$11 a pop. Of course they must perform well if Nissan is going to warranty their cars using them.
Same with the Honda filter made by Fram, though they can be had for 6-7 bucks. Pure One territory.

 

[Sayjac]

Originally Posted By: SuperBusa
I haven't used FRAM oil filters for years. Since then, I see lots of higher end FRAM oil filters lines out there. Does FRAM use the cardboard end caps on all of their oil filters, or just the lower end ones?
Not in the Extended Guard around $7.50 at Walmart.