Fram X2 Filters ?

[T-Keith]

I like to think that I'm neutral when I talk about filters. Obviously though, without scientific tests this is all opinion as you said. I hope though, that people don't confuse my objective opinion, with personal preference. Your probably right, I'm not sure if I'd buy any Fram filter due to past problems. But what I post here is actual observations, not a grudge, I've shown proof for my reasoning.

What I'm trying to show with the picture above is the ADBV is pushed in, allowing flow to bypass the filter entirely. This is because of the ADBV design shared by ALL Fram filters including the X2, even though the filter shown is an Extra Guard. Thickness may not be as important when the flow is to your advantage.(where the valve seals against the base plate) But it is important where the flow is working against it.(where the valve seals against the filter end cap) This is where the thin Fram ADBV is a problem, as evidence in the picture.

If Fram makes a design that is as good as their competetors for the same price, I'll recomend it. Until then I'll call them as I see 'em.

-T

 

[Propflux01]

Most auto manufacturers state in the owners manual that non-severe service oil changes are at 7500 miles. some even recommend filter changes every 2nd oil change. If the OEM can recommend this, then the filters they have are capable of this or they would not be acceptable to run by the OEM for that long a time. Just because a box says it will does not mean that other filters will not. If that was the case there would be alot of warrenty claims that would be void 'just because it ain't on the box'. to me, it is just a marketing ploy to attract consumers. the X2 may be a good filter, I don't know, as I will not use a Fram due to past problems. But if it is a good one, bring that $9.87 (Walmart) price down to something that makes more finacial sense, for the quality of it is no better (worse, IMHO) than a $4.00 wix or Purolater. In fact, I would be hard pressed to even think it is a better filter for it's price.

 

[Propflux01]

quote:

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Originally posted by Tim H.:
Most auto manufacturers state in the owners manual that non-severe service oil changes are at 7500 miles. some even recommend filter changes every 2nd oil change. If the OEM can recommend this, then the filters they have are capable of this or they would not be acceptable to run by the OEM for that long a time. Just because a box says it will does not mean that other filters will not. If that was the case there would be alot of warrenty claims that would be void 'just because it ain't on the box'. to me, it is just a marketing ploy to attract consumers. the X2 may be a good filter, I don't know, as I will not use a Fram due to past problems. But if it is a good one, bring that $9.87 (Walmart) price down to something that makes more financial sense, for the quality of it is no better (worse, IMHO) than a $4.00 wix or Purolater. In fact, I would be hard pressed to even think it is a better filter for that $4.00 price.

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[Grease is the word]

Let's find out the truth about X2's. Someone step up and PM me to send me $10 and I'll include one on the next round of PF 1218 filter comparisons (http://home.earthlink.net/~memphis3/mercfilters/merc.htm). We'll measure flow and filtration and we can stop guessing.

I am not including the X2 because I have already spent $100 on filters for this study and the X2 isn't one that I would consider anyway. If someone wants to find out for sure, PM me and put up the $10. Otherwise, we'll go round and round on the X2 issue. I believe the study already put to bed whether or not I will use an EG or TG from Fram.

 

[ZiTS]

ZR2RANDO - Honestly, I'm not trying to be the least bit upset, angry, argumentative, or whatever else it may seem. Simply trying to educate people on facts, and not speculation.

T-Keith - Peace, love, and happiness, dude

FRAM Hater: "They use cardboard endcaps!"
-FRAM uses metal on the X2.
FRAM Hater: "Well, the filtering media is way to thin on the ones I've used in the past!"
-FRAM uses a much thicker, completely different media ('TRIAD')on the X2.
FRAM Hater: "Doesn't matter. The center tube is weak and will collapse!"
-FRAM reinforces it and uses a mesh screen for additional support (X2).
FRAM Hater: "So what?! They have nitrile ADBV's that are cheap!"
-FRAM uses silicone on the X2.
FRAM Hater: "Doesn't matter. It's flimsy and too thin! I'll never again put one of those orange cans on my car!"
-FRAM paints the X2 metallic.
FRAM Hater: "I STILL won't buy one! They're way too expensive!"

I think it is quite clear that alot of the people that dislike FRAM choose to do so based solely on past experience. However, even when the company "reinvents" its' filter to the gripes everyone has always listed, that still doesn't seem to be good enough, because it still says "FRAM" on it.

[ February 19, 2004, 04:04 PM: Message edited by: ZiTS ]

 

[T-Keith]

Your right, Fram deserves some credit for this filter, it's alot better than their other filters. Too bad you have to pony up more than three times as much.

Grease, I'd love to see how the X2 would do in your test. I'll put up $5 for it.

-T

 

[ZR2RANDO]

TGIT.....happy hour already? It's 5o'clock somewhere!!!

 

[Terry]

This filter media may be optimum for use with Auto-RX. Has anyone tried it in that application?

 

[sbc350gearhead]

As far as the cheap bypass valve........not all filters have a bypass valve in them, so the fact that frams bypass sucks, would not steer us away from them.

 

[Propflux01]

quote:

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Originally posted by T-Keith:
Your right, Fram deserves some credit for this filter, it's alot better than their other filters. Too bad you have to pony up more than three times as much.

-T

---

I think that is the major complaint on this filter. Not because it is a Fram, but moreso that Fram states it cannot use cardboard due to the nature of the filter type. yet, for them, it seems if the cardboard is so good and strong and such, why the change on the X-filter, and why so much more cost? Call me a Fram hater if you will, but I cannot see the justification on how these are made vs expense vs the cardboard-is-great-but-we-can't-use-it-on-this-Xfilter. even a 'Fram hater' like myself would use a Fram like the X-filter if it wasn't so high in price vs what you get vs whats available cheaper elsewhere.

So point #2....Sell me as to why i would want to pay more for this filter based on the above posting...all bias aside, tell me what is so great about it. in comparison to similar-built filters at half the cost?

please note: I am not trying to be a smarta$$, or anything like that. I just want to know the truth, not whats written on the box, or what a company says, no ad-lib, just the truth.

 

[T-Keith]

I think most of the concern is with the ADBV, not the bypass.

-T

 

[sbc350gearhead]

Some of us have filters that mount with the open end straight up, and therefore, may not even need an ADBV at all.............so ultimate efficiency of the ADBV is not a top priority.

 

[ZR2RANDO]

sbc350gearhead,
even if the filter is mounted with the open end up , a functioning adbv can still be a good thing. If it works like it is supposed to it not only holds oil in the filter itself (a given if the open end is up, ,,granted), but it can also hold back oil that is above the filter itself..keeping it from draining backwards through the filter towards the oil pan. Depends on the design of the system, One-way valves are a good thing in a hydraulic sense...
Bypass valves- some vehicles have the bypass in the block/filter mount anyway so a bad bypass design in a filter may not matter for that person. I have a couple of Chevy trucks, they have a bypass in the filter mount so in my case I use the Super Tech3980, I won't use the Super Tech filters in my Nissan Truck though because that application does use a bypass in the filter and I don't like that design...I use Motorcraft for that truck.
We each have different priorities so The filter that is good for me, may not be good for you. We have also seen how some filters have multiple makers for the different applications/retailers...they are just messing with us because we are keeping an eye on them...it's a conspiracy

 

[ZiTS]

Tim H.,

I have already stated the facts on the X2, which anyone can verify for themselves. Other than how the TRIAD media actually performs, what else do you want me to say? You are a FRAM Hater, yes (am I stating the obvious?), even though I had no one in mind when I typed-out my little script. You and I have also gone back & forth ref FRAM on previous posts. Therefore, it would do me no good to argue w/ you about FRAM, so I'm not going to. If you're looking for an answer as to why they priced it that way, why don't you e-mail the bean-counters at Honeywell? I certainly wouldn't know the reason.

Z-

 

[sbc350gearhead]

quote:

---

Originally posted by ZR2RANDO:
sbc350gearhead,
even if the filter is mounted with the open end up , a functioning adbv can still be a good thing. If it works like it is supposed to it not only holds oil in the filter itself (a given if the open end is up, ,,granted), but it can also hold back oil that is above the filter itself..keeping it from draining backwards through the filter towards the oil pan. Depends on the design of the system, One-way valves are a good thing in a hydraulic sense...

---

Yes....that theory has been discussed here before, and although it seems quite logical, I (and a few others) am not convinced that it works in application. For example. Tonight, Out of curiousity, I cracked loose the PF35L oil filter (no ADBV) on my camaro, and measured the oil that leaked out from above the filter.............7-8 ounces. The car has not been started since early december. The next time I change the oil on my truck (pf1218......virtually the same filter, but with an ADBV), I will measure the oil above the filter (although I can't give it 2 months to drain back.....more like 1 day), and compare it to the results from my camaro. But honestly, I don't think there will be much difference.

 

[labman]

Yes many of us do hate Fram and will never give them a fair chance. I never will, and I don't apologize for it. I feel they lied to me. There was a time when you could trust brand names and you did get what you paid for. A name brand product selling for more than a house brand was worth it because it was better, not worse. Fram has not only betrayed the public, their dishonesty makes it tougher for everybody that is trying to obtain a fair price for a higher quality product. I still like my AC's, but have respect for STP and Purolator that are putting out a decent product for about the same price as Fram. I am 60 now, and likely will go to my grave without ever buying another Fram no matter how good or how cheap. Integrity still is important to some of us.

 

[ZR2RANDO]

SBC350GEARHEAD,
"Depends on the design of the system," some work better than others, iN my truck (CHEVY S10) quite a bit drains out from above the filter, it just depends on the design of the particular system though..sounds like your example worked pretty well given no start in at least a month

LABMAN,
I'm with you buddy, I don't buy Frams any more either....but to each his own...them younger fellows, those ones that don't remember disco, Elvis and homemade whiskey,,,,they are the generation of tomorrow....."Those who don't learn from history are doomed to repeat it"...ain't that how it goes?...and I'm only 43!!

 

[Propflux01]

[/QUOTE]
Sell me as to why i would want to pay more for this filter based on the above posting...all bias aside, tell me what is so great about it in comparison to similar-built filters at half the cost? I just want to know the truth, not whats written on the box, or what a company says, no ad-lib, just the truth. [/QB][/QUOTE]

And I thought I was just asking a legit question. Alot of people have just told me what a great filter the Fram is, but no one has answered the questions, both in past posts and in the quote above......

 

[ZiTS]

T-Keith, you are obviously one of those people who could care less what kind of a product FRAM puts out - as long as it says "FRAM", you won't use it. That's fine. However, you are also very quick to jump into the camp of attacking FRAM, which is obvious by your posting of the incorrect filter. Why do you have so many used FRAM's lying around if they're such junk? Do you work at an automotive service facility? Also, you say the Champion ADBV is so much better because it is "thicker". I can come right back and say that the thinner, more flexible FRAM design will seal better and is much more reliable. Something that is "thicker" won't be as flexible; therefore, I can use the argument that the Champion ADBV may not seal as well as the FRAM ADBV. Finally, I don't understand the picture you posted of the ADBV. I must be missing something, but it simply looks like a nitrile ADBV to me. I don't see anything wrong with it. Maybe the resolution just isn't that good. You say that there is nothing stopping the silicone one from doing the same thing, but it's not clear what you're referring to.
Look, we can sit here all day and all night arguing about our opinions, when in the end, that is all they are - "our" opinions. Until I see independent lab testing showing me the FRAM X2 is no good, I will continue to use it and recommend it. Whether you think the 7,000 mile statement is marketing hype or not, no other filter I've seen says IN WRITING it will go that long. Until my wife's engine blows up from the FRAM X2 not doing its' job, that's the filter it's getting. If the X2 were made for my application, I'd use it on my car. Again, these are just some of the reasons I say that everyone should buy the filters for their specific application, cut them open, and compare. Then they can make their own choice.

 

[ZiTS]

OK, this has gone way too far. This is going to be the last reply I do in this post (I can hear the sighs already) because it is obvious some people are trying to steer off topic (which is discussion of the FRAM X2) and bash FRAM completely.

labman - I can't speak for FRAM as far as integrity goes, but integrity is VERY important to me. You've basically admitted you won't trust the X2 because of past problems with the EG (I'm assuming that's the FRAM filter you had problems with). Maybe the reason FRAM came out with the X2 is to win back people like you.

ZR2RANDO - Tell me how old do you think I am, and what difference it makes anyway? I've met some pretty stupid 43-year-olds in my life, let alone 60-year-olds. Let's keep in mind we are talking about oil filters here...nothing more. It sounds like both you and labman are basing your opinion of the FRAM X2 on your PAST experience of other FRAM filters (EG?

). Why can't you two acknowledge that maybe they HAVE improved their product? Why? Because you've both already made up your minds that any filter that has "FRAM" printed on it is junk. That just doesn't seem right to me.

Tim H. - What more can I say? You keep saying you want facts and not hype. You don't trust what's on the box, what the company says, or any "ad-lib". Sounds like you won't be satisfied until you see independent lab results showing how good the X2 performs. Well, I won't be unhappy until I see independent lab results showing how bad the X2 performs. As far as bias goes...why would I be biased? I've said repeatedly I couldn't care less what oil filter people use. All I have been trying to do is dispel any speculation of the X2 which people are basing on past experience with the cheapo FRAM EG filter.

Why is it that no one has a problem with the high pricing of the Mobil 1 or K&N filters? Are they REALLY all that superior to any other filter? Not from the posts I've read on here, but people sure don't get the kind of flack I have for defending/using them. If the X2 is someday shown to perform only as well as, let's say, a Motorcraft, well...guess which filter I'll be using?

[ February 20, 2004, 01:39 AM: Message edited by: ZiTS ]