I picked up a Fram Ultra 3600 looked inside and I see this like clear/white plastic plug thing on the back inside center of the filter? Ok so can someone tell me what that is? On a P1 filter or other I usually see a metal bump or plug?
Fram Ultra?
- Thread starter Camprunner
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It is the bypass valve; Fram uses plastic instead of metal.
Originally Posted By: 2010_FX4
It is the bypass valve; Fram uses plastic instead of metal.
It is this plastic bypass valve that turns me away from their premium filters. It is the same bypass valve as in the OCOD , for a dollar more at wallyworld one can get a Bosch D+ for a $1 more. Fram built a really good filter but then used a poorly designed bypass valve...makes no sense.
It is the bypass valve; Fram uses plastic instead of metal.
It is this plastic bypass valve that turns me away from their premium filters. It is the same bypass valve as in the OCOD , for a dollar more at wallyworld one can get a Bosch D+ for a $1 more. Fram built a really good filter but then used a poorly designed bypass valve...makes no sense.
Originally Posted By: Thax
Originally Posted By: 2010_FX4
It is the bypass valve; Fram uses plastic instead of metal.
It is this plastic bypass valve that turns me away from their premium filters. It is the same bypass valve as in the OCOD , for a dollar more at wallyworld one can get a Bosch D+ for a $1 more. Fram built a really good filter but then used a poorly designed bypass valve...makes no sense.
Yeah, what a cheap valve. They only test it a million cycles in 250F oil, the cheapskates.
Originally Posted By: 2010_FX4
It is the bypass valve; Fram uses plastic instead of metal.
It is this plastic bypass valve that turns me away from their premium filters. It is the same bypass valve as in the OCOD , for a dollar more at wallyworld one can get a Bosch D+ for a $1 more. Fram built a really good filter but then used a poorly designed bypass valve...makes no sense.
Yeah, what a cheap valve. They only test it a million cycles in 250F oil, the cheapskates.
There is a video on Youtube I think, the valve seems more than adequate. Here a D+ is a full 3 bucks more at Wally's, and the Ultra is so good I'm not biting, a bargain at 9 bucks everyday IMO.
The best "deal" I've seen here on the D+ is to get it with an oil change special at AAP.
The best "deal" I've seen here on the D+ is to get it with an oil change special at AAP.
Ok so it's a buypass valve thanks crew... By the way im ok with it being plastic. I am a Glock owner now for 20 years and prob around 50,000 rnds I have had my Glock so hot shooting that I have had to set it down for 45 min and then continue so I know that todays plastic will hold up. Fram must have tested the heck out of that filter as it has been out for awhile now im fine with plastics. By the way it sure looks like a quality filter and it's not some liteweight either.
Originally Posted By: Thax
Originally Posted By: 2010_FX4
It is the bypass valve; Fram uses plastic instead of metal.
It is this plastic bypass valve that turns me away from their premium filters. It is the same bypass valve as in the OCOD , for a dollar more at wallyworld one can get a Bosch D+ for a $1 more. Fram built a really good filter but then used a poorly designed bypass valve...makes no sense.
What proof do you have that the bypass valve is junk?
Originally Posted By: 2010_FX4
It is the bypass valve; Fram uses plastic instead of metal.
It is this plastic bypass valve that turns me away from their premium filters. It is the same bypass valve as in the OCOD , for a dollar more at wallyworld one can get a Bosch D+ for a $1 more. Fram built a really good filter but then used a poorly designed bypass valve...makes no sense.
What proof do you have that the bypass valve is junk?
Originally Posted By: Camprunner
Ok so it's a buypass valve thanks crew... By the way im ok with it being plastic. I am a Glock owner now for 20 years and prob around 50,000 rnds I have had my Glock so hot shooting that I have had to set it down for 45 min and then continue so I know that todays plastic will hold up. Fram must have tested the heck out of that filter as it has been out for awhile now im fine with plastics. By the way it sure looks like a quality filter and it's not some liteweight either.
I 2nd that about the Plastic. Plastic can be very durable, and what better proof than a good old Glock G17 or G19 what 20,000 plus rounds down the pipe. Plastic now day's can be used in just about any thing and last a long time.
I dont use the Fram Ultra because I the P1 cost less where I live.
Ok so it's a buypass valve thanks crew... By the way im ok with it being plastic. I am a Glock owner now for 20 years and prob around 50,000 rnds I have had my Glock so hot shooting that I have had to set it down for 45 min and then continue so I know that todays plastic will hold up. Fram must have tested the heck out of that filter as it has been out for awhile now im fine with plastics. By the way it sure looks like a quality filter and it's not some liteweight either.
I 2nd that about the Plastic. Plastic can be very durable, and what better proof than a good old Glock G17 or G19 what 20,000 plus rounds down the pipe. Plastic now day's can be used in just about any thing and last a long time.
I dont use the Fram Ultra because I the P1 cost less where I live.
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I dont like the way I posted that so. What I was trying to say is Plastic is fine to use, and can be very durable and take a lot of heat and punishment, But do I think the Fram bypass valve is a good design no. That is why I use P1 or Wix. And mainly I use the P1 because I can get them so much cheaper.
Well, if the bypass design tests fine to 1,000,000 cycles, far more than is possible in normal service, why is it a bad design vs anything else?
Cheaper filters... hard to argue against that as long as you compare apples to apples. Each of us has certain criteria we look at for "value." That's at least partly emotional but if you compare, efficiency, capacity and construction features within a price range, and then buy the best filter for the money on that particular day, you've probably very done well by your vehicle.
Some of the the construction things we Bitogers hyperfocus on are just different roads to the same place when you get right down to it. One company uses a type A bypass and another uses type B and another uses type C. Each has validated their design and produces millions of them per month. Nobody here can really produce data to prove one is "better" than another, so all we really do is bandy opinions about using anecdotes as paddles. My thinking now is that all the major lines are "good" in terms of construction when compared in their price ranges. Some offer a little more value here and there... such as including a silicon ADBV in a cheaper filter, or a better media, etc. Ultimately, for the most part, it always boils down to the price.
Cheaper filters... hard to argue against that as long as you compare apples to apples. Each of us has certain criteria we look at for "value." That's at least partly emotional but if you compare, efficiency, capacity and construction features within a price range, and then buy the best filter for the money on that particular day, you've probably very done well by your vehicle.
Some of the the construction things we Bitogers hyperfocus on are just different roads to the same place when you get right down to it. One company uses a type A bypass and another uses type B and another uses type C. Each has validated their design and produces millions of them per month. Nobody here can really produce data to prove one is "better" than another, so all we really do is bandy opinions about using anecdotes as paddles. My thinking now is that all the major lines are "good" in terms of construction when compared in their price ranges. Some offer a little more value here and there... such as including a silicon ADBV in a cheaper filter, or a better media, etc. Ultimately, for the most part, it always boils down to the price.
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Jim,
You really better be careful. All this emotionally detatched logical talk is going to make you a BITOG outcast!!
You really better be careful. All this emotionally detatched logical talk is going to make you a BITOG outcast!!
Originally Posted By: cp3
Jim,
You really better be careful. All this emotionally detatched logical talk is going to make you a BITOG outcast!!
Even if it's BITOG that was a major factor in my evolution in that direction? I supose I'm becoming BITOG Spock
(eyebrow raised)
Fascinating!
Jim,
You really better be careful. All this emotionally detatched logical talk is going to make you a BITOG outcast!!
Even if it's BITOG that was a major factor in my evolution in that direction? I supose I'm becoming BITOG Spock
(eyebrow raised)
Fascinating!
Originally Posted By: Kuato
Perhaps their philosophy is that the filter should be changed prior to ever needing the bypass valve?
An engine can go into bypass at startup on a very cold day until the oil warms. Can't rule it out.
Perhaps their philosophy is that the filter should be changed prior to ever needing the bypass valve?
An engine can go into bypass at startup on a very cold day until the oil warms. Can't rule it out.
Originally Posted By: 72Cude426
Originally Posted By: Camprunner
Ok so it's a buypass valve thanks crew... By the way im ok with it being plastic. I am a Glock owner now for 20 years and prob around 50,000 rnds I have had my Glock so hot shooting that I have had to set it down for 45 min and then continue so I know that todays plastic will hold up. Fram must have tested the heck out of that filter as it has been out for awhile now im fine with plastics. By the way it sure looks like a quality filter and it's not some liteweight either.
Is the barrel or the sllde bearing surfaces plastic?
I 2nd that about the Plastic. Plastic can be very durable, and what better proof than a good old Glock G17 or G19 what 20,000 plus rounds down the pipe. Plastic now day's can be used in just about any thing and last a long time.
I dont use the Fram Ultra because I the P1 cost less where I live.
Originally Posted By: Camprunner
Ok so it's a buypass valve thanks crew... By the way im ok with it being plastic. I am a Glock owner now for 20 years and prob around 50,000 rnds I have had my Glock so hot shooting that I have had to set it down for 45 min and then continue so I know that todays plastic will hold up. Fram must have tested the heck out of that filter as it has been out for awhile now im fine with plastics. By the way it sure looks like a quality filter and it's not some liteweight either.
Is the barrel or the sllde bearing surfaces plastic?
I 2nd that about the Plastic. Plastic can be very durable, and what better proof than a good old Glock G17 or G19 what 20,000 plus rounds down the pipe. Plastic now day's can be used in just about any thing and last a long time.
I dont use the Fram Ultra because I the P1 cost less where I live.
The P1 is a great fitelr for the money. It and the Ultra are equal in terms of efficeincy... both rated at 99.9% @ 20um. The Ultra is full synthetic media, where the P1 is a cellulose/synthetic blend. Where that makes a difference is in capacity. The P1 for my application (PL24651) is rated at a 13 gram capacity. The Ultra for my application (XG2) is rated at 30 grams. How? The full syn media is a depth media that can carry contaminats on the surface as well as inside itself. A cellulose media is a surface media and while the syn blend may add some capacity, it's still primarily a surface media (having had both apart, I can say they both have about the same size element) . Will 3x the capacity make a difference? Not to all of us, so if you are going to do no more than 10K, a P1 will do ya, for sure. Going longer, is where that 3x difference will help. Or if you are going to do filter changes every other oil change. IIRC, the P1 is rated by Puro up to 10K and Fram rates the Ultra at 15K... which seems to me is a bit underrated in the case of my application. Price? Normal price for the XG2 and the P1 PL24651 is $8.97 vs $6.99 @ my WalMart. $2 difference. Likely the Ultra flows a bit better too so will avoid bypass better on cold starts.... but no data on that.
Originally Posted By: Jim Allen
Originally Posted By: cp3
Jim,
You really better be careful. All this emotionally detatched logical talk is going to make you a BITOG outcast!!
Even if it's BITOG that was a major factor in my evolution in that direction? I supose I'm becoming BITOG Spock
(eyebrow raised)
Fascinating!
Live long and prosper my friend!
Originally Posted By: cp3
Jim,
You really better be careful. All this emotionally detatched logical talk is going to make you a BITOG outcast!!
Even if it's BITOG that was a major factor in my evolution in that direction? I supose I'm becoming BITOG Spock
(eyebrow raised)
Fascinating!
Live long and prosper my friend!
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: Jim Allen
IIRC, the P1 is rated by Puro up to 10K ...
That has been debated a few times here. Purolator's website is pretty vague on just how long of an OCI their filters are rated for.
You're right. I was quoting the new syn filter as it turns out... sorry for the error.
I have run a P1 10K but when I go back into my P1 file, which has all the info I have on it, there really isn't anything beyond a 3000 mile, 3 month interval listed (yes, it's on the current P1 page at Puro). The website states 10K on the Syn filter and 27 grams capacity on the PLS3001 but only 99 percent @ 25 um.
Interestingly, I see 13 grams capacity listed on the website for the PL3001, which is the same number I was quoted for the PL24651. I have cut both open and the 3001 has a bit more media... or at least it's taller. I'll have to count pleats, I guess.
My question is: Why is the Pure One rated at 99% @ 20 um where the Syn is only 99% @ 25 um?
Originally Posted By: Jim Allen
IIRC, the P1 is rated by Puro up to 10K ...
That has been debated a few times here. Purolator's website is pretty vague on just how long of an OCI their filters are rated for.
You're right. I was quoting the new syn filter as it turns out... sorry for the error.
I have run a P1 10K but when I go back into my P1 file, which has all the info I have on it, there really isn't anything beyond a 3000 mile, 3 month interval listed (yes, it's on the current P1 page at Puro). The website states 10K on the Syn filter and 27 grams capacity on the PLS3001 but only 99 percent @ 25 um.
Interestingly, I see 13 grams capacity listed on the website for the PL3001, which is the same number I was quoted for the PL24651. I have cut both open and the 3001 has a bit more media... or at least it's taller. I'll have to count pleats, I guess.
My question is: Why is the Pure One rated at 99% @ 20 um where the Syn is only 99% @ 25 um?
Originally Posted By: Jim Allen
The P1 is a great filter for the money. It and the Ultra are equal in terms of efficiency... both rated at 99.9% @ 20um. The Ultra is full synthetic media, where the P1 is a cellulose/synthetic blend. Where that makes a difference is in capacity. The P1 for my application (PL24651) is rated at a 13 gram capacity. The Ultra for my application (XG2) is rated at 30 grams. How? The full syn media is a depth media that can carry contaminants on the surface as well as inside itself. A cellulose media is a surface media and while the syn blend may add some capacity, it's still primarily a surface media (having had both apart, I can say they both have about the same size element) . Will 3x the capacity make a difference? Not to all of us, so if you are going to do no more than 10K, a P1 will do ya, for sure. Going longer, is where that 3x difference will help. Or if you are going to do filter changes every other oil change. IIRC, the P1 is rated by Puro up to 10K and Fram rates the Ultra at 15K... which seems to me is a bit underrated in the case of my application. Price? Normal price for the XG2 and the P1 PL24651 is $8.97 vs $6.99 @ my WalMart. $2 difference. Likely the Ultra flows a bit better too so will avoid bypass better on cold starts.... but no data on that.
There is very little to filter in a clean/good engine. If an engine is shedding more than 5-6 grams of metals in 10k miles, it is dying.
The P1 is a great filter for the money. It and the Ultra are equal in terms of efficiency... both rated at 99.9% @ 20um. The Ultra is full synthetic media, where the P1 is a cellulose/synthetic blend. Where that makes a difference is in capacity. The P1 for my application (PL24651) is rated at a 13 gram capacity. The Ultra for my application (XG2) is rated at 30 grams. How? The full syn media is a depth media that can carry contaminants on the surface as well as inside itself. A cellulose media is a surface media and while the syn blend may add some capacity, it's still primarily a surface media (having had both apart, I can say they both have about the same size element) . Will 3x the capacity make a difference? Not to all of us, so if you are going to do no more than 10K, a P1 will do ya, for sure. Going longer, is where that 3x difference will help. Or if you are going to do filter changes every other oil change. IIRC, the P1 is rated by Puro up to 10K and Fram rates the Ultra at 15K... which seems to me is a bit underrated in the case of my application. Price? Normal price for the XG2 and the P1 PL24651 is $8.97 vs $6.99 @ my WalMart. $2 difference. Likely the Ultra flows a bit better too so will avoid bypass better on cold starts.... but no data on that.
There is very little to filter in a clean/good engine. If an engine is shedding more than 5-6 grams of metals in 10k miles, it is dying.
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