Fram ULTRA XG 9018

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It would have to be wire backed. The media wouldn't hold up without the wire, it has absolutely 0 strength.
 
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: Sayjac
'Best for ecotecs'. There's one Bitog poster that doesn't share that opinion.

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubb...ia_#Post3367488

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubb...URE#Post3435035

Seem to be a couple of rare antidotal instances.

Since subject broached, can add a couple more cartridge fail anecdotes to make them a little less rare. First a much more recent but same XG cartridge failure issue and second a standard Fram cartridge, but with a similar failure.

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubb...ore#Post3930157

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/3411091/1

Originally Posted By: MinamiKotaro
It would have to be wire backed. The media wouldn't hold up without the wire, it has absolutely 0 strength.

I'd agree, unless Fram has gone away from synthetic media to a blend or similar in the XG9018? Or perhaps tc noting a different cartridge?
 
Originally Posted By: Sayjac
Originally Posted By: MinamiKotaro
It would have to be wire backed. The media wouldn't hold up without the wire, it has absolutely 0 strength.

I'd agree, unless Fram has gone away from synthetic media to a blend or similar in the XG9018? Or perhaps tc noting a different cartridge?


Yes, full synthetic media needs some kind of backing material to provide a somewhat ridged form, and to ensure it can withstand the delta-p across it.

The new Purolator Boss ditched the metal wire backed mesh and went with a nylon mesh material that is bonded to the back of the media. I would assume the new Boss in cartridge form would use the same configuration of nylon mesh backing material.

Don't know the real world proof if it's a good design, as nobody has used and cut one open here to show what's going on.
 
In my post above I said the Ultra did not have wire backing. That is totally wrong. I pulled the one out of my 2.4L yesterday, cut it apart and it does have the wire with the pleats pressed in, and a plastic tube for support. PLenty of room in the wire backed pleats for oil to migrate down.

The The USA made FRAM TG9018, uses the same tube, but WITHOUT WIRE. The pleats appear to be glued to that solid part of the tube.

I would use either the ULTRA or Hengst Delco, whichever I got the best price on. Yesterday in local Walmart, someone had opened two of the Delco's and both were marked Hengst. I emailed
AC Delco and asked if their USA 457P were made by Hengst and here is thier reply:

Please be advised that ACDelco is committed to providing the quality
> products that people have come to know and trust. Yes, some of our parts
> are outsourced, but the manufacturers have strict engineering
> specifications and guidelines that they must follow in order for the parts
> to pass the ACDelco standard of quality.
>
> The part number 457G you have provided is not listing as a valid number.
> However if you mean the PF457G then yes, they are made by our vendor
> Hengst in the USA.
 
^^^Thanks for clearing up XG wire backed comment.

As for the ACDelco PF457G, still not quite clear to me.

The Hengst made PF457G posted here did not use the wrap around pleat endcap design covering part of the pleats.

It's been posted here many times. But Summit racing still shows a pic of it.

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/acf-pf457g

But note Summit says "Same Item, New Number" and it looks different. Also there's no indication it's still Hengst made either. It's same one now also found/sold on Amazon and Ebay.

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/ado-pf457g
 
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: Sayjac
Originally Posted By: MinamiKotaro
It would have to be wire backed. The media wouldn't hold up without the wire, it has absolutely 0 strength.

I'd agree, unless Fram has gone away from synthetic media to a blend or similar in the XG9018? Or perhaps tc noting a different cartridge?


Yes, full synthetic media needs some kind of backing material to provide a somewhat ridged form, and to ensure it can withstand the delta-p across it.

The new Purolator Boss ditched the metal wire backed mesh and went with a nylon mesh material that is bonded to the back of the media. I would assume the new Boss in cartridge form would use the same configuration of nylon mesh backing material.

Don't know the real world proof if it's a good design, as nobody has used and cut one open here to show what's going on.


Remember Sir the comparison to the Mann fleece filter or Evotop? The ones Mercedes sells as OE parts? I cut a Mann up, it looks the same as the Boss in the few Boss pictures that are around. The Mann fleece filter has been around probably for 20 years or something. So, if the Boss is very similar or the same, which likely it is since it is the same company, there is a very long track record. Picture is Mercedes Mann built fleece filter. The Fram Ultra has stainless steel mesh which appears good enough to catch bullets. The guy with the magnets on his filter never answered my question if the other brand filter with steel mesh was magnetic or not, which could tell if it was stainless or regular steel.

DSCN1724_zpstxm5qges.jpg


Fram Ultra mesh showing two layers of media, more or less.

DSCN2036_zpsn7863wep.jpg
 
Originally Posted By: goodtimes
Remember Sir the comparison to the Mann fleece filter or Evotop? The ones Mercedes sells as OE parts? I cut a Mann up, it looks the same as the Boss in the few Boss pictures that are around. The Mann fleece filter has been around probably for 20 years or something. So, if the Boss is very similar or the same, which likely it is since it is the same company, there is a very long track record. Picture is Mercedes Mann built fleece filter. The Fram Ultra has stainless steel mesh which appears good enough to catch bullets.


Yes, not doubt the design of the new Purolator Boss is a copy of the Mann fleece filter as you've pointed out. Shouldn't be any issues I wouldn't think.

Do you have any info on the efficiency (with micron level) of the Mann fleece filters?

Originally Posted By: goodtimes
The guy with the magnets on his filter never answered my question if the other brand filter with steel mesh was magnetic or not, which could tell if it was stainless or regular steel.


Most stainless steel will also be magnetic. Only stainless with very high chromium in the alloy is not magnetic. My guess the metal mesh in the Ultra is stainless however. It's possible it could also be made out of aluminum.
 
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: goodtimes
Remember Sir the comparison to the Mann fleece filter or Evotop? The ones Mercedes sells as OE parts? I cut a Mann up, it looks the same as the Boss in the few Boss pictures that are around. The Mann fleece filter has been around probably for 20 years or something. So, if the Boss is very similar or the same, which likely it is since it is the same company, there is a very long track record. Picture is Mercedes Mann built fleece filter. The Fram Ultra has stainless steel mesh which appears good enough to catch bullets.


Yes, not doubt the design of the new Purolator Boss is a copy of the Mann fleece filter as you've pointed out. Shouldn't be any issues I wouldn't think.

Do you have any info on the efficiency (with micron level) of the Mann fleece filters?

Originally Posted By: goodtimes
The guy with the magnets on his filter never answered my question if the other brand filter with steel mesh was magnetic or not, which could tell if it was stainless or regular steel.


Most stainless steel will also be magnetic. Only stainless with very high chromium in the alloy is not magnetic. My guess the metal mesh in the Ultra is stainless however. It's possible it could also be made out of aluminum.


I think you know Purolator published no microns in the efficiency label for their Purolator brand. Bosch is. Stainless steel is commonly non magnetic, rare to find magnetic. That's how most shops will do a quick test. That's why I asked, and if the mesh isn't magnetic, it will be stainless steel, not regular steel. Motorking stated the Ultra has stainless steel mesh. I think we can agree since he said that, it is true. Here we go again.
music%20man_zpskzd3kbzn.jpg
 
Originally Posted By: goodtimes
I think you know Purolator published no microns in the efficiency label for their Purolator brand. Bosch is.

Stainless steel is commonly non magnetic, rare to find magnetic. That's how most shops will do a quick test.


Just the opposite in my experience. I rarely find super grade stainless that is not magnetic. Most have varying degrees of magnetism ... the higher the chromium in the alloy, the less magnetic it becomes.

Originally Posted By: goodtimes
That's why I asked, and if the mesh isn't magnetic, it will be stainless steel, not regular steel. Motorking stated the Ultra has stainless steel mesh. I think we can agree since he said that, it is true.


Did you try the magnet test on the mesh in the Ultra? If it's not magnetic, it still could be aluminum. A touch to a grinder after the magnet test will tell you if it's non-magnetic stainless (sparks) or aluminum (no sparks).
 
Remember Sir the comparison to the Mann fleece filter or Evotop? The ones Mercedes sells as OE parts? I cut a Mann up, it looks the same as the Boss in the few Boss pictures that are around. The Mann fleece filter has been around probably for 20 years or something. So, if the Boss is very similar or the same, which likely it is since it is the same company, there is a very long track record. Picture is Mercedes Mann built fleece filter. The Fram Ultra has stainless steel mesh which appears good enough to catch bullets. The guy with the magnets on his filter never answered my question if the other brand filter with steel mesh was magnetic or not, which could tell if it was stainless or regular steel.

DSCN1724_zpstxm5qges.jpg


Fram Ultra mesh showing two layers of media, more or less.

DSCN2036_zpsn7863wep.jpg
[/quote]

Yes it's magnetic
ol82v.jpg
 
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: goodtimes
I think you know Purolator published no microns in the efficiency label for their Purolator brand. Bosch is.

Stainless steel is commonly non magnetic, rare to find magnetic. That's how most shops will do a quick test.


Just the opposite in my experience. I rarely find super grade stainless that is not magnetic. Most have varying degrees of magnetism ... the higher the chromium in the alloy, the less magnetic it becomes.

Originally Posted By: goodtimes
That's why I asked, and if the mesh isn't magnetic, it will be stainless steel, not regular steel. Motorking stated the Ultra has stainless steel mesh. I think we can agree since he said that, it is true.


Did you try the magnet test on the mesh in the Ultra? If it's not magnetic, it still could be aluminum. A touch to a grinder after the magnet test will tell you if it's non-magnetic stainless (sparks) or aluminum (no sparks).


I don't need a grinder to tell if the filter mesh is aluminum or steel. I suggest since you use the Ultra, to check it your way. Jay says stainless steel, I believe it. Machine shops for many decades used a magnet to check if something is stainless. If something looks like steel, put a magnet to it, if it isn't magnetic 99% certainty it is stainless. Common stainless has nickel and higher chromium and is non magnetic. What I said is 100% correct, put a magnet to the mesh. They are using common stainless, not "super grade", mesh in a $10 oil filter. Realize I am retired and have had decades of experience in a well known University research lab, where I had to make a lot of my own fixtures for the projects in the machine shop. I started there in 1974. Not some kid. I am starting to get the picture here. This is it, once again, bye, good luck with oil filters, % @ X, etc etc.....:

music%20man_zpskzd3kbzn.jpg
 
Originally Posted By: goodtimes
Machine shops for many decades used a magnet to check if something is stainless. If something looks like steel, put a magnet to it, if it isn't magnetic 99% certainty it is stainless. Common stainless has nickel and higher chromium and is non magnetic. What I said is 100% correct, put a magnet to the mesh. They are using common stainless, not "super grade", mesh in a $10 oil filter.


Well, look at the photo above your post and you can see the mess is magnetic ... so I guess it's not so 'common stainless steel' that is non-magnetic. I'm just saying in my experience I rarely find stainless steel that is totally non-magnetic. And I've used a magnet on all kinds of stainless steel for decades. Go try it on your stainless dinnerware, I bet a magnet will stick to it. If not, then I guess I have some [censored] stainless dinnerware - LoL.

Originally Posted By: goodtimes
Realize I am retired and have had decades of experience in a well known University research lab, where I had to make a lot of my own fixtures for the projects in the machine shop. I started there in 1974. Not some kid. I am starting to get the picture here. This is it, once again, bye, good luck with oil filters, % @ X, etc etc.....:


LoL ... ouch, why so grumpy?
grin.gif
You have no idea what my background is, and I'm not going to spew it here anyway.
 
"However, the most common stainless steels are 'austenitic' - these have a higher chromium content and nickel is also added. It is the nickel which modifies the physical structure of the steel and makes it non-magnetic."

Well, I guess about all the stainless in my house is not "common stainless steel". Everything from dinnerware, cooling ware, knives, to surgical instruments are all magnetic stainless in my house. I do however have a nice set of stainless steel measuring cups that are not magnetic - but that's about it.
grin.gif


I'm betting the stainless mesh in an Ultra is also magnetic. They aren't going to use a more expensive stainless steel for a wire backing material.

Thanks for the link though.
 
Originally Posted By: webfors
Originally Posted By: CELICA_XX
It burned 3 quarts of oil during this service of 5,100 miles.


3 quarts of oil in 5k miles?
crazy2.gif

Plus using a long life filter. With syn oil at 5,000 mile oil change intervals.
 
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix


I'm betting the stainless mesh in an Ultra is also magnetic. They aren't going to use a more expensive stainless steel for a wire backing material.


You are correct; the mesh in a XG9018 that I cut open recently is totally magnetic. By the way the magnet grabbed on, it didn't seem to have any non-magnetic material mixed in.
 
The only true 304 stainless steel I see is in parts that are in contact with food, almost all other stainless steel seems to be lower grade "chrome" magnetic stainless. The filter mesh is bathed in oil in operation anyway-not going to be a lot of rusting going on anyway-unlike the outside can (on a screw-on filter)!
 
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