I may have to cut one open..
Fram tough guard cut open
- Thread starter Scott S
- Start date
I think a contributiing factor was Nissan ECU had the engine running at a high rpm during the warmup drive - and I could not do anything about it. Engine ran at over 3000 rpm in sub zero weather for at least 2 - 3 miles. My only guess is this was done to circulate and warm up the CVT fluid. I tried back peddling it, but then the car was going 10MPH. The QR25DE engine in 2014 took 5W30 oil in the smaller Rogue Select model.
Also, How about a lot of short chopped fibreglass in the media paper "blend"?
Definitely going to give this filter a try next time, also the Fram endurance looks pretty decent.. but that's also made by champion.
Yeah, a cold start high idle of ~3000 RPM is up there. But on the other hand, if an oil filter is designed and built right, it should be able to take the bypass dP all day long and not tear media or fail in any way.
And that fancy Filtech would look perfect on here in a virgin cut-and-post.
Guess we have to soak the "paper" element in warm oil and water and start doing shear/tear testing.
Or with the spate Tear-o-lators and tearing filtech - there is something else going on in the sump chemistry.
Like that Ford Champ I cut open years and it was full of oil (it came squirting out) and nothing was leaking out the centre tube. I guessing air cant get in back thru the center tube outlet past wet media to allow a drain without pushing open the ADBV flapper with an awl or small phillips head screwdriver
That's why we cut open used filters and inspect them to see how they survived during actual use. IMO, I don't think the oil chemestry has any real impact. It's mainly due to media that can't take the dP if the pleats get too much side force from cold thick oil flow. Could be too that some filters get impulse spikes that the bypass valve can't react to fast enough. Lot's of dynamic things going on.
Yep, oil stays inside the filter if the ADBV seals well, even if off the engine and there is no oil in the center tube. I let a used PureOne filter sit base down in a funnel for a week and all the oil inside the filter remained. There is enough surface tension in the oil to keep it from flowing out the center tube unless you either open the ADBV or punch a hole in the top of the can to get it to drain out.
- Joined
- Feb 5, 2023
- Messages
- 152
Okay but do we have any examples of fiber end cap frams tearing? The only thing I remember seeing were with the cartridge filters and those don't have the fiber end caps. I was very skeptical about the claims that the former fram rep had said about them but looking through all these various brands of middle-end cap filters with cellulose media, it seems like the fiber end cap frams really do hold up better even when they have these gaps. How it looks in the end doesn't matter, it's whether it held up or not. That is what matters.
I’ve never opened up a filter to look inside and frankly, I never thought I would even be interested in looking at these photos. Then I joined this forum, and now I feel like Chief Inspector Clouseau.
Last edited:
Looking at it is one thing, opening them and feeling the media is another. For example the first fram extra guard I cut open was a used ph4967. Albeit the weather here is pretty mild so we dont have subzero cold starts. Everyone talks bad about these filters because the end caps are paper. The ridigidity of the media and the "paper" end caps is very tough on these. It would take probably my body weight to crush the media and get it to rip, even then it might not. I also couldn't pull the end caps away with all my strength, even though they are "paper." People watch a video or pics and start bad mouthing a filter based on appearance. Ironically most of the tears I've seen were where the filter is glued into a metal end cap, and the brand was not fram or champ.I’ve never opened up a filter to look inside and frankly, I never thought I would even be interested in looking at these photos. Then I joined this forum, and now I feel like Chief Inspector Clouseau from the Pink Panther.
I'll second this. I used to be in the "Fram orange cans are cheap POS filters" camp and never used them. Then I had one I took off of something that I decided to cut open, and was surprised how decent it was. Now they aren't something I would use for an extended drain, but they are certainly a good value for your typical 5000-7000 mile OCI, lawn mowers, etc. As we have seen here, there are plenty of filters at twice the price of the Fram that still didn't look good when cut open, so paying more doesn't always mean you will get more value. My go-to lately has been the Tough Guard.
When I cut open the tough guard, I was hoping to see pleats more equally spaced. But I will say that it did retain its oil, even though it's sat in the drain bucket, draining for about 2 weeks.. versus the Napa pro select that had not a drop of oil left in it..
I've been thinking about trying one of these, but from the pictures/youtube videos I've seen it looks like some of the XLs have the combo valve bypass, at least from the looks of the baseplate. Also it seems the only one that would fit my Jeep would be if I went from the PH16 size to the PH3614 size.
Looks like Premium Guard, or private label PG, extended life filter, the “PG” in the part number gives it away.
Ever try an FL-1A/PH8A size on it? I ran them on my ‘98 4.0 Cherokee all the time, and I still see OG Ultra XG8As around!
I ran those a few times on my 4.0 Cherokee, but there is no way they would fit on the Wrangler with the filter location. With that said I went back to the stock size on the Cherokee, because I didn't really see a benefit. I was just paying for more oil (like .5 qts more) each OCI. Which would be good if doing a longer OCI, but I always did shorter OCI since my Jeeps see frequent short trip use usually. One could even argue that the larger oil capacity would take longer to get up to operating temp.
