So you verified by looking down the center tube that there was no wire backing through the holes?
Fram PH 3600 at 5,000 miles. Torn pleats
- Thread starter cb4017
- Start date
Yes, it had the new yellowish media with no wire backing. I put it back in the box and moved on. If I am considering a Fram can filter purchase nowadays I am checking the product in the box before purchasing. Finding a wire back Titanium filter is all I would be interested in at this time.
Yes and this is exactly why I don't run any filter more than 1 OCI!
Yeah, I figured the Titanium would eventually have the new non-wire backed media at some point.
The change of the Titanium to new XG cheapened media version was inevitable. I never thought First Brands was going to keep the 2-ply full synthetic microglass media with wire backing for a 'made for AAP' OF. Essentially, that would have meant keeping all the tooling and materials (media & wire backing) for one outside (AAP) line. It was just a matter of new stock replacing the older OG Ultra media stock on the shelves.
It's funny though because AAP has bumped their prices while the selling a product that has been cheapened. I'll say it again, the Supertech MP filters are looking like a heck of a deal more and more every day
Fram has been going in reverse back to their Honeywell days and I have no idea what Mann & Hummel is doing anymore. Champ is still putting out some good stuff. I know people don't like Chinese wares but filters such as the Ecogard Synthetic line are looking like world beaters right now.
Installed the FRAM Extra Guard PH9688 yesterday . Tightened little over 1 full turn . Replaced NAPA Gold 1334
( https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/t...oil-filter-a-dew-days-after-o-c.346597/page-2 ) that started to leak from the gasket after 2 to 3 extreme cold nights ( -20 ) . Checked the PH9688 after install and seems fine . Plan to check the next few days . Topped off with 11 ounces synthetic and at FULL level . Check oil filters every week or 2 .
( https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/t...oil-filter-a-dew-days-after-o-c.346597/page-2 ) that started to leak from the gasket after 2 to 3 extreme cold nights ( -20 ) . Checked the PH9688 after install and seems fine . Plan to check the next few days . Topped off with 11 ounces synthetic and at FULL level . Check oil filters every week or 2 .
Last edited:
I was hoping you would mail me the Napa Gold filter so I could cut and post it
I think you're thinking of the FRAM Ultra XG7317 that leaked oil from the metal canister . I've had some bad luck with oil filters the past 6 months .
If anyone has interest, I can buy a 3600, cut it open, and post photos.
It does seem odd that they updated the design by making the pleats tighter only for it to go back to what it was before. I’m guessing my beloved PH16 is the same way.
I use a lot of the 7317s. AFAIK, they have always looked decent.
It does seem odd that they updated the design by making the pleats tighter only for it to go back to what it was before. I’m guessing my beloved PH16 is the same way.
I use a lot of the 7317s. AFAIK, they have always looked decent.
The subject filter was made almost a year ago, so hard to say what the new ones look like. Might have been some newer PH3600 filter C&Ps posted here. My guess is this example is not typical.
That’s a good point but I’m still surprised it was changed.
wemay
Site Donor 2023
In 9688 guise, I really like the STP S2808 (Hyundai clone) and the SuperTECH ST/MP 9688 now. I've cut open unused filters of both brands and the pleat spacing, over-all build quality is nice. I used to feel the same about FRAM XG but after this buyout, I just don't know anymore.
Only change (permanent-??) in the EG I've seen is going back to a black nitrile ADBV.
It was a few years ago when they added media to some. The Ph3600, PH16. Perhaps the PH2 etc.
The one in this thread looks to have a decent amount of media ... it's just not spaced out uniformly like it should be. Fram needs to look at the machine that spaces the media before it's potted to the end caps.
dnewton3
Staff member
Torn pleats certainly are not unique to Fram; we've seen this phenomenon in Purolator, Wix just to mention a few.
But, we'd have to ask ourselves if the pleat spacing is to blame. Is the spacing the primary root cause, or just a symptomatic secondary contributor? To some degree, we'd think that the wide space would focus the oil pressure in that area. OK, perhaps ....
That wider pleat space has LESS stress on the material at the fold, therefore would it not be less likely to rupture there? Any time you "fold" a material, the greater you fold it (the farther you make it "bend") the more you stress the material. Any deformation causes stress and weak points, but the "more" you fold it, the "more" the material is compromised in that area. When you fold the material, the material is compressed at the inner portion closest to the radius of the bend, and the material further out is in tension further out from the radius of the bend. So in fact, the tighter the pleats are spaced, the tighter the folds are, and therefore the more stressed the material is at those folds.
So I find that the theory that the wide pleat space is fully to blame for a tear isn't necessarily the pure root-cause reason for the tear in that area.
We've seen tears in the folds even in tightly-spaced media, but not as often, perhaps simply because they are harder to detect in tightly folded media.
But, we'd have to ask ourselves if the pleat spacing is to blame. Is the spacing the primary root cause, or just a symptomatic secondary contributor? To some degree, we'd think that the wide space would focus the oil pressure in that area. OK, perhaps ....
That wider pleat space has LESS stress on the material at the fold, therefore would it not be less likely to rupture there? Any time you "fold" a material, the greater you fold it (the farther you make it "bend") the more you stress the material. Any deformation causes stress and weak points, but the "more" you fold it, the "more" the material is compromised in that area. When you fold the material, the material is compressed at the inner portion closest to the radius of the bend, and the material further out is in tension further out from the radius of the bend. So in fact, the tighter the pleats are spaced, the tighter the folds are, and therefore the more stressed the material is at those folds.
So I find that the theory that the wide pleat space is fully to blame for a tear isn't necessarily the pure root-cause reason for the tear in that area.
We've seen tears in the folds even in tightly-spaced media, but not as often, perhaps simply because they are harder to detect in tightly folded media.
I'm sticking with the excessively wide pleat spacing around the seam/crimp pleat as THE primary cause of the topic tear. I've seen too many anecdotes here with similar wide pleat spacing with tears on pleats adjoining the crimp area to think otherwise. Not to mention, it's been the cause most attributed to tears here in the past by many.
While there may have been anecdotes with tears in pleats where the media was packed tightly, "if" there have been such, they have been 'very' few and far between. That statement comes with observation of many post use c&p anecdotes over many years.
So basically, for me the wide pleat spacing as the cause here is an Occam's Razor type conclusion.
While there may have been anecdotes with tears in pleats where the media was packed tightly, "if" there have been such, they have been 'very' few and far between. That statement comes with observation of many post use c&p anecdotes over many years.
So basically, for me the wide pleat spacing as the cause here is an Occam's Razor type conclusion.
Last edited:
It's a pretty simple failure to see on a close-up of the tear. The oil flow tries to bend over and flatten the pleat. The bending causes high stress at the root of the pleat because the pleat is potted and fixed to the end cap. The media tore where there is no fold or crease. Pretty much all the Purolator tears look just like this one. You can actually reproduce this failure by physically bending the pleat side ways near the root with a finger, and see and hear the media tear. I've done it on Purolators.
The other factor in the failure is due to how brittle the media is. Some media is more brittle and tears easier than others. Combine those two factors with a possible 3rd factor of increased delta-p events in the winter when oil is much thicker at very cold start-ups. And if the media is also very cold during a cold start-up, it's also possible the media is more brittle and tears easier. There are many possible factors involved.
But it's the excessive bending of the pleat due to the wide spacing IMO that is the largest factor. Throw in the other factors on top of wide pleat spacing and the chance of the media tearing becomes real.
The other factor in the failure is due to how brittle the media is. Some media is more brittle and tears easier than others. Combine those two factors with a possible 3rd factor of increased delta-p events in the winter when oil is much thicker at very cold start-ups. And if the media is also very cold during a cold start-up, it's also possible the media is more brittle and tears easier. There are many possible factors involved.
But it's the excessive bending of the pleat due to the wide spacing IMO that is the largest factor. Throw in the other factors on top of wide pleat spacing and the chance of the media tearing becomes real.
Last edited:
Look at this torn Purolator I posted way back in 2011 ... same basic failure mode. Wide pleat was bent over too far, stress increased at the root and the brittle media tore. That filter was removed in the spring after use over the winter months.
https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/damaged-purolator-classic.154212/
https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/damaged-purolator-classic.154212/
Last edited:
