Fram orange can from Ford 5.4 3v

[kstanf150]

Everyone hates on frams basic oil filters...blah blah blah fiber end caps, blah blah blah OCOD! Has anyone every really had a failure? I haven’t ever

I’ve never had an issue with the OCOD.....but then again, I’ve never purchased one

But my mechanic that just rebuilt the top end of our company van .....hates em
He’s been a machinist for over 40 years
Worked on every motor known to man
He says and I believe him
The OCOD Is his best customer

 

[wemay]

Is this "bash on Fram" week or what?!

Not you OP, but your mechanic and a few other recent posts.

 

[SoNic67]

Sucks to have wasted some good oil and a filter because they have some old thinking.

But both of my 5.4l 3v is only like the motorcraft FL820s . Every other filter will make 1-2 second start up rattle noise .

That FRAM filter it doesn't have the silicone anti-drainback valve that Ford recommends for your engines, so that's why is crap.
That's why the lash adjusters make noise at start-up and wear out themselves and the chain.
Bypass valve pressure is not the same (Ford FL820S Relief Valve Setting PSI : 12). At cold start-up, the filters with higher relief pressures will generate a higher pressure drop over the filter valve (yes, keeping that stronger spring compressed takes more energy), leading to less flow trough the engine. Tensioners take longer to fully extend the chain.

Also the location of relief valve in the majority of Ford OE application filters prevents settled debris from entering and potentially damaging the engine. FRAM has it on the wrong side.

You keep using Fram filters though...

BTW the Motorcraft filters for your engine are not even more expensive, they are like $5.60:

https://parts.ford.com/shop/en/us/filters/oil-filters/filter-assy-oil-8294871-1

 

[4WD]

Wuts knot ta luv, bruh ?

 

[DGXR]

Seems fine. Fram orange cans are good for standard intervals up to 5000 miles. I think there are better filters available for the same money but that's just my opinion. I am not saying Fram orange cans are bad filters, I am saying they're not the best.

 

[advocate]

That FRAM filter it doesn't have the silicone anti-drainback valve that Ford recommends for your engines, so that's why is crap.
That's why the lash adjusters make noise at start-up and wear out themselves and the chain.
Bypass valve pressure is not the same (Ford FL820S Relief Valve Setting PSI : 12). At cold start-up, the filters with higher relief pressures will generate a higher pressure drop over the filter valve (yes, keeping that stronger spring compressed takes more energy), leading to less flow trough the engine. Tensioners take longer to fully extend the chain.

Also the location of relief valve in the majority of Ford OE application filters prevents settled debris from entering and potentially damaging the engine. FRAM has it on the wrong side.

You keep using Fram filters though...

BTW the Motorcraft filters for your engine are not even more expensive, they are like $5.60:

https://parts.ford.com/shop/en/us/filters/oil-filters/filter-assy-oil-8294871-1

I won’t be using motorcraft filters. Have had too many fail on me. The fram does have a silicone adbv. All their filters do as of 2018. The location of the bypass filter makes little to no difference. Most are on the other side of the can... these frams are made for that engine. They will have a bypass setting that is in the range specified by ford. There is no start up rattle in this vehicle and it’s been using fram filters for years.

I’m not sure where you are getting this false information from or where the hatred comes from...

 

[haggler]

no rips = fine
rips = bad

 

[ZeeOSix]

I’m not sure where you are getting this false information from or where the hatred comes from...

Probably YouTube click bait videos.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Bypass valve pressure is not the same (Ford FL820S Relief Valve Setting PSI : 12). At cold start-up, the filters with higher relief pressures will generate a higher pressure drop over the filter valve (yes, keeping that stronger spring compressed takes more energy), leading to less flow trough the engine. Tensioners take longer to fully extend the chain.

The filter bypass valve setting has nothing to do with what the delta-p across the filter will be. The delta-p across the filter (which makes the filter bypass operate) is only determined by the flow performance of the filter media, and the oil viscosity and flow rate going on.

Also, regardless if the bypass valve opens or not doesn't determine if the oil flow to the engine is reduced ... that is only determined by the PD pump going into pressure relief or not. A flow restrictive/clogged filter along with thick cold oil and high engine revs will most likely make the pump hit pressure relief. And even if the pump hits pressure relief, it doesn't automatically mean the filter has enough delta-p across the media to open the bypass valve.

 

[Subie5w30]

I have the EZ36D Subaru motor that moves A LOT of oil around through the pump. At 83k miles and have used the Orange can PH9688 plenty of times with no problems what so ever and each time I cut them open after a 4k to 5k OCI they look great with great pleat spacing and I've seen zero indications of problems or noise at startup that's unusual etc. According the many forums and almost all of Youtube my motor should have blown up a few years ago without a doubt because.....end caps....*****

I've tended to run the OEM Roki filters lately but only because I can get them cheap at the dealer here, but I'm willing to bet money that the fram orange can is a good bit more efficient than the OEM (not that I think it matters too much for my use) and more than adequate.

 

[SoNic67]

The delta-p across the filter (which makes the filter bypass operate) is only determined by the flow performance of the filter media, and the oil viscosity and flow rate going on.

When is in by-pass mode (at start, cold oil, high viscosity) that valve certainly has a pressure drop over itself. Is not an electric valve, it's spring loaded and takes the opening energy from fluid friction.
The media is in a parallel circuit with the valve, so it doesn't matter at all the media delta p drop, when that valve is opened.

Since the valve it is in series with the engine circuit, will be restricting the flow towards the engine.
Indeed will create a head on the pump output and the rest of that pumped oil will go back into the oil pan, via the pump relief. That's normal and irrelevant... we already consider that pump output a constant pressure.
It's fluid dynamics 101.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fluid_dynamics

 

[kschachn]

I’ve never had an issue with the OCOD.....but then again, I’ve never purchased one

But my mechanic that just rebuilt the top end of our company van .....hates em
He’s been a machinist for over 40 years
Worked on every motor known to man
He says and I believe him
The OCOD Is his best customer

If this little story is even the truth it again illustrates how little some mechanics actually know. Apparently he "hates em" for no technical reason, or did you leave that out of the story? Or is he just like the YouTube doods that rant and rave with no substance whatsoever?

 

[ZeeOSix]

When is in by-pass mode (at start, cold oil, high viscosity) that valve certainly has a pressure drop over itself. Is not an electric valve, it's spring loaded and takes the opening energy from fluid friction.

Of course it does ... it's the delta-p across the whole filter media, and that is the only thing that makes a spring loaded bypass valve operate.

The media is in a parallel circuit with the valve, so it doesn't matter at all the media delta p drop, when that valve is opened.

Yes it does still matter, because the media is what caused the majority of the delta-p in the first place. The bypass valve would never open if there was very little delta-p across the media. The bypass valve opens to try and keep the delta-p at a maximum level so the filter isn't damaged and to ensure the same oil flow goes through the media (flow through media + flow through bypass = same total flow going to the engine).

Like mentioned, the only time the oil flow drops is when the PD pump goes into pressure relief. A filter can go into bypass without the pump going into pressure relief, and a pump can go into pressure relief without the filter going into bypass. They operate independently.

Since the valve it is in series with the engine circuit, will be restricting the flow towards the engine.

The filter bypass valve is in parallel with the media ... see comment above: flow through media + flow through bypass = same total flow going to the engine. There will never be a "reduction in flow" unless the PD pump is in pressure relief. It's engine oiling system fluid dynamics 101.

 

[kstanf150]

If this little story is even the truth it again illustrates how little some mechanics actually know. Apparently he "hates em" for no technical reason, or did you leave that out of the story? Or is he just like the YouTube doods that rant and rave with no substance whatsoever?

Leave it to you to reply some responses like that. You don’t know the man and you judge. He’s forgot more about an engine then you’ll ever learn. Do everyone on this thread and stop being the Debbie Downer and the sky is falling on every reply you post. If all you can do is make SA comments about something and someone you don’t know. Go hang out somewhere else.

 

[ZeeOSix]

But why does he hate them - did he say? Could it be because he saw something bad 25+ years ago?

 

[kstanf150]

But why does he hate them - did he say? Could it be because he saw something bad 25+ years ago?

Hello sir
Probably in hind site he probably should love em, they’ve made him a good living. But no he didn’t spend a lot of time in our conversation about why he has a dislike for them so much. Other than he’s not a fan and want use one on his personal cars and trucks. He’s a big GM fan and believes in using a factory filter on a stock engine and has for years and years. On his race engines, he uses a lot Wix filters. I presume he’s years of tearing down and rebuilding engines he’s probably seen a lot of engines come into his shop with an orange can still attached or by asking his customer what they’d been using and recorded to memory. So I have no reason to doubt his word.

 

[kschachn]

Exactly the response I expected. Zero technical reasons whatsoever. Again people running their mouth about something when they have no real reason to do so.

Amazing you complain to me about what I said and yet this is the response that you give.

 

[SoNic67]

Of course it does ... it's the delta-p across the whole filter media, and that is the only thing that makes a spring loaded bypass valve operate.

So... the media pushes a small finger against the spring?
Where is the energy coming that will be stored in the spring? Try to keep a spring compressed and see if it takes an effort. The only source of energy is the fluid moving around the valve. And that fluid will lose pressure at the back side of the spring loaded valve surface. Valves are just restrictions that have local pressure drops, that's why you can turn the water flow lower in your house sink.

As for the filter, at that point in oil's viscosity... it's a brick. Try pushing honey trough a coffee filter paper - nothing goes by. That's why we have those valves installed there in the first place.

I'm not gonna teach you basic physics. Have a nice day!

 

[kstanf150]

Exactly the response I expected. Zero technical reasons whatsoever. Again people running their mouth about something when they have no real reason to do so.

Amazing you complain to me about what I said and yet this is the response that you give.

It’s obvious you can’t comprehend that a man that makes his living working and rebuilding engines that has a dislike towards a part of some kind like an oil filter has to have technical data to prove he knows what the hell he’s talking about when he’s done it and seen it for 35 years. The AMAZING part is that your replies never offer nothing anything but sarcasm and brow beating
Your always trying up one on everything you type.
From what I see from you is nothing but a guy who can’t so he types way above his ability

 

[Zee09]

It's a wonder he didn't cut up the Ford and send it back too.
( I own Fords too...just saying.)