Fram HM3593A Cut Open - Engine failure

[cptbarkey]

This filter was on an EJ25D 1998 subaru forester. One Piston exploded and connecting rod in chunks.

this is a Fram HM3593A High Mileage filter. Obviously not the preferred filter because of bypass valve specs. Was it to blame? I was not the driver of the vehicle, I bought it as a parts car and will be resurrecting it sometime this year with a low mileage JDM engine.

The last picture is whats left of the piston, the rings are fused.

My personal feelings about fram are indifferent. i'll use whatever is on the shelf.

Enjoy. Album here: http://imgur.com/a/aeZ2Z

 

[Tegger]

I only see pics of the filter.

 

[electrolover]

They don't call it the orange can of death for nothing.

 

[mongo161]

What was the cause of the engine failure?

If the person installed an inappropriate oil filter on the Subaru
Forester, I would not blame the Fram Filter.

The media in the filter, from the pictures shown, appears to be in very good shape, even with the end caps.

However, I don't see the cartridge with the "patented" HM additive.

IMO.....the Fram filter can't be blamed for the engine failure because the wrong filter with by-pass valve specs was used.

The filter looks good to me. Don't forget that Honda OEM filters are clones of the orange can. Honda states that the filter should be changed every 2 OCI's.

Can't you see that the Fram must be a very good filter for Honda to recommend keeping the filter on for 2 oil changes.,

 

[cptbarkey]

Originally Posted By: mongo161
What was the cause of the engine failure?

However, I don't see the cartridge with the "patented" HM additive.


i dont know, maybe oil starvation. the oil pickup was sort of clean when i looked at it. I have the plastic inner tube section device but didnt bother taking a picture of it because it does not look suspect. I am not an expert at oil filter analysis anyway so I also reserve judgement.

 

[simple_gifts]

Any chance of a leaking HG on this vehicle; what is the mileage.

 

[aquariuscsm]

Not the fault of the filter.

 

[gathermewool]

When was the oil checked last? Any coolant loss?

 

[Doog]

Originally Posted By: Tegger
I only see pics of the filter.


Pics of the engine or it never happened.

 

[KCJeep]

Originally Posted By: mongo161

The filter looks good to me. Don't forget that Honda OEM filters are clones of the orange can. Honda states that the filter should be changed every 2 OCI's.

Can't you see that the Fram must be a very good filter for Honda to recommend keeping the filter on for 2 oil changes.,


I believe the Honda filters are actually Tough Guards, an upgrade from the orange can.

 

[nitehawk55]

I'm betting head gasket/overheating or could have been a hydrolic lock .

 

[Sayjac]

Originally Posted By: KCJeep
Originally Posted By: mongo161

The filter looks good to me. Don't forget that Honda OEM filters are clones of the orange can. Honda states that the filter should be changed every 2 OCI's.

Can't you see that the Fram must be a very good filter for Honda to recommend keeping the filter on for 2 oil changes.,


I believe the Honda filters are actually Tough Guards, an upgrade from the orange can.

While the construction of the Honda oem 'looks' very similar to the TG, recent Amsoil testing of the Honda A-02 shows something different. The A-02 tested ~65%@20um, whereas the TG is rated by Fram ~99@>20um, a big difference. The Fram made A-02's low efficiency spec was something as much as confirmed in my visit the the Fram test labs last fall. But, before Amsoil's testing many including myself thought the TG and A-02 were basically the same. As for as efficiency goes, the A-02 would be a downgrade from the orange can.

To the topic, imo there's not enough information to blame the filter here. While the HM wouldn't be my first choice, I think blaming the filter is a real leap and I see nothing specifically in the filter pics that indicates the filter to be responsible for the piston damage in the last pic. And last I knew the Subaru oem is made by Fram, but to Subaru specs. If the owner suspected the filter, he should have contacted Fram, boxed it up, and sent it out for testing. Having seen the labs and used filters being tested, it's what they do.

 

[cptbarkey]

all very good questions that i cannot answer. i only had one gasket to look at from the junk pile i bought, and i couldnt tell if it was blown or not. he was driving it when the engine cratered. one of the heads definitely has bent valves. i picked up an oversize valve spring compressor i might disassemble it for fun later.

i agree that there is not enough information to say if the filter caused the failure. it looks mighty dirty but the pleats are all even. i may also disassemble the oil pump as well, it has heavy cooked varnish along with the cylinder bores.

 

[KCJeep]

Originally Posted By: sayjac
Originally Posted By: KCJeep
Originally Posted By: mongo161

The filter looks good to me. Don't forget that Honda OEM filters are clones of the orange can. Honda states that the filter should be changed every 2 OCI's.

Can't you see that the Fram must be a very good filter for Honda to recommend keeping the filter on for 2 oil changes.,


I believe the Honda filters are actually Tough Guards, an upgrade from the orange can.

While the construction of the Honda oem 'looks' very similar to the TG, recent Amsoil testing of the Honda A-02 shows something different. The A-02 tested ~65%@20um, whereas the TG is rated by Fram ~99@>20um, a big difference. The Fram made A-02's low efficiency spec was something as much as confirmed in my visit the the Fram test labs last fall. But, before Amsoil's testing many including myself thought the TG and A-02 were basically the same. As for as efficiency goes, the A-02 would be a downgrade from the orange can.

To the topic, imo there's not enough information to blame the filter here. While the HM wouldn't be my first choice, I think blaming the filter is a real leap and I see nothing specifically in the filter pics that indicates the filter to be responsible for the piston damage in the last pic. And last I knew the Subaru oem is made by Fram, but to Subaru specs. If the owner suspected the filter, he should have contacted Fram, boxed it up, and sent it out for testing. Having seen the labs and used filters being tested, it's what they do.


Fascinating information. So it appears some of the major Japanese manufacturers are intentionally spec'ing low efficiency filters, since the Toyota OEM is also known to be a very low efficiency filter. Since it appears intentional, I wonder what the reasoning could possibly be?

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: KCJeep
Fascinating information. So it appears some of the major Japanese manufacturers are intentionally spec'ing low efficiency filters, since the Toyota OEM is also known to be a very low efficiency filter. Since it appears intentional, I wonder what the reasoning could possibly be?


Guess they think that flow is better than filtering efficiency because supposedly high efficiency filters don't really make much difference in engine wear (per some of the so called studies that indicate that).

But IMO, even high efficiency filters can flow very well. I'm beginning to think that some of these oiling systems are just plain weak ... meaning the oil pump is under powered and/or the engine's oiling circuit is very restrictive which would cause a filter that is slightly restrictive to become a burden/detriment to the oiling system.

 

[KCJeep]

Now I'm really curious to know what the efficiency of the Hyundai/KIA OEM filters would be then... maybe a very high flow low efficiency OEM filter is the reason the mysterious Hyundia/KIA engine knock appears with some after market filters, not enough flow.

I agree you don't have to give up efficiency to get flow, look at the PureOne as one example.

If some engines are that touchy then I think oil choice comes into play as well... if someone dumps 10w40 into his newer Japanese/Korean vehicle because it's what they've always used, that could be a real problem on cold start with some flow dependant designs. All speculation of course but I'm starting to see a pattern. Then again I've never noticed complaints of engine knock with Honda's and Toyotas with aftermarket filters.

Interesting anyway.

 

[wag123]

An oil filter's flow rate could be a VERY important specification in vehicles that use variable displacement/flow oil pumps. I don't know if Honda is using them (yet) but Chevy, Ford, Chrysler, BMW, Mercedes, Renault, and Toyota definitely are.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: wag123
An oil filter's flow rate could be a VERY important specification in vehicles that use variable displacement/flow oil pumps. I don't know if Honda is using them (yet) but Chevy, Ford, Chrysler, BMW, Mercedes, Renault, and Toyota definitely are.


How do those types of oil pumps differ in design from a good old positive displacement oil pump?

Oil filter restrictiveness to the engine's oiling system shouldn't be a problem with a solid positive displacement oil pump.

 

[Frank D]

That first photo of the filter element looks like there is sludge in it at the top. It could have been poorly maintained and had other issues but say it had a Fram filter on it and the bashers jump all over it.

 

[Russ300H]

Originally Posted By: Frank D
That first photo of the filter element looks like there is sludge in it at the top. It could have been poorly maintained and had other issues but say it had a Fram filter on it and the bashers jump all over it.


+1 There's no obvious filter failure that would have caused oil starvation. The sludge seen on the media indicates to me that there as been history of poor maintenance.