Fram Endurance Flashlight Test in canister

[Jeepwm69]

I can't see the leaky filters being a good thing. That said, I just bought about 25 of these FE filters on clearance for $3-6 each (averaged $4.11 each)

I do short OCI's, so I'll likely run these. 94 Accord, 2008 Odyssey, 2011 Accord, mid 80's Jeep CJ's. These are all older rigs, and get changed every 5K miles except the Jeeps. They get changed every 2-3K, or even more often due to time.

My only non-antique is the wife's 2019 GX, and it takes an open element filter (10158), so I assume the open filament FE will be GTG, right?

I just spent way too much time reading this thread. Was shocked at some of the intervals on filter changes with multiple oil changes before swapping the filter, but I think yall are much more invested in the minute details than I am.

 

[Hatsuwr]

Well this thread has been quite the ride. I'd like to contribute with some cut open filters, depending on what is available nearby. How can I identify a OG Titanium vs new and an OG Ultra vs new? Is it all just backing presence and media color?

 

[jimmyjamesndt]

So now we’re back to the dead horse thats been discussed in dozens of threads on BITOG for over a year. The BR results are not accurate or repeatable so we’re debating garbage data…..leakers or not, no way of knowing.

Mods please lock this thread!!

But I like this thread, I am waiting for the outcome of it.

 

[Analog-1]

IBTL

 

[ZeeOSix]

How can I identify a OG Titanium vs new and an OG Ultra vs new? Is it all just backing presence and media color?

Look through the holes (or louvers) in the center tube with a strong flashlight and look for the wire mesh through the holes. Only other way after it's cut open is to cut open the media, or you could push the pleats sideways a good amount and they should stay because the wire backing will bend and stay there.

 

[Pablo]

From wiki, about drawing metal. My bypass valve has lots of wrinkles and stretch marks. So this may be operator or supervisor skill.

“Metal​

Main article: Wire drawing
Successful drawing depends on the flow and stretch of the material. Steels, copper alloys, and aluminium alloys are commonly drawn metals.[4]

In sheet metal drawing, as a die forms a shape from a flat sheet of metal (the "blank"), the material is forced to move and conform to the die. The flow of material is controlled through pressure applied to the blank and lubrication applied to the die or the blank. If the form moves too easily, wrinkles will occur in the part. To correct this, more pressure or less lubrication is applied to the blank to limit the flow of material and cause the material to stretch or set thin. If too much pressure is applied, the part will become too thin and break. Drawing metal requires finding the correct balance between wrinkles and breaking to achieve a successful part.”

I have some experience in the USA and China. I said this pages and page ago

 

[CharlieBauer]

Well this thread has been quite the ride. I'd like to contribute with some cut open filters, depending on what is available nearby. How can I identify a OG Titanium vs new and an OG Ultra vs new? Is it all just backing presence and media color?

No need to cut them open. Pour a small amount of oil down the center tube with a funnel.

 

[Ronn]

No need to cut them open. Pour a small amount of oil down the center tube with a funnel.

Great suggestion, probably the most relevant as to identifying a leaker. However, not definitive as to identifying old vs new, since it “could” be a newer version( not wire backed) that doesn’t leak. Wire backed appears to be the primary distinguishing characteristic, without opening the filter.
Per your suggestion, I will do this on my FE Endurance (wire backed 100% synthetic ) prior to installing it at my next OC in 3 months

 

[CharlieBauer]

Great suggestion, probably the most relevant as to identifying a leaker. However, not definitive as to identifying old vs new, since it “could” be a newer version( not wire backed) that doesn’t leak. Wire backed appears to be the primary distinguishing characteristic, without opening the filter.
Per your suggestion, I will do this on my FE Endurance (wire backed 100% synthetic ) prior to installing it at my next OC in 3 months

Earlier wire backed will have the felt seal. Later ones will not.

Earlier metal to metal seals seem fine. The leaf spring quality appears to be deteriorating over time.

An XG box that says "Durable Metal Screen" will have wire backing and felt seal.

Boxes that say "Perfect Seal Gasket" need to be inspected. Earlier date codes are better / have more chance of felt seal and properly formed leaf spring.

 

[KevinMalone]

I agree with your logic. The only difference is that the rated efficiency means that all those 4 filters (Amsoil, FE, Royal Purple, XG (aka FU)), should have single digit particle counts in the 21-38 micron range.

So even the FE is suspect as it's PC in BR testing equates to 97.3% across all particles 21 to 38 micron in size vs Amsoil's 99%.

Thanks for quantifying this. I posted earlier about how both the Fram Ultra and Endurance were leakers - the Ultra is confirmed as the ripply leaf spring is visible in the video, while the Endurance was assumed as even the smooth leaf springs had visible gaps:

https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/t...-test-in-canister.386911/page-29#post-7013629

https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/t...-test-in-canister.386911/page-29#post-7013656

Hopefully my last post:

The Brand Ranks testing also tells us that Fram quality is really really bad.

The Extra Guard filtered NOTHING. The Tough Guard is in the 50% range for particles 21-38 microns. The TG is like a Wix XP!

The EG is very disappointing. BR points out a gap that might explain the extremely high particle counts. For sh*ts and giggles, what's your calculated efficiency for the EG?

 

[CharlieBauer]

Thanks for quantifying this. I posted earlier about how both the Fram Ultra and Endurance were leakers - the Ultra is confirmed as the ripply leaf spring is visible in the video, while the Endurance was assumed as even the smooth leaf springs had visible gaps:

https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/t...-test-in-canister.386911/page-29#post-7013629

https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/t...-test-in-canister.386911/page-29#post-7013656




The EG is very disappointing. BR points out a gap that might explain the extremely high particle counts. For sh*ts and giggles, what's your calculated efficiency for the EG?

View attachment 241431

Thanks for circling back with those pictures!

Can I send you a PM?

 

[Joenpb]

Hard to believe this topic is still going strong, or that any type of oil filter leak has no affect on filtering efficiency. Which is basically what we have here.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Hard to believe this topic is still going strong, or that any type of oil filter leak has no affect on filtering efficiency. Which is basically what we have here.

Pretty soon, torn media will be AOK too. And after that, people will be convinced that no oil filter is needed at all because engines don't blow-up from dirty oil.

 

[Sayjac]

Pretty soon, torn media will be AOK too. And after that, people will be convinced that no oil filter is needed at all because engines don't blow-up from dirty oil.

Orrrrr, as has been said here before regarding the FEs with sealing area openings (or even torn media), they are "still filtering more oil than they're not".

 

[CseBug]

Here’s a used sample fe7317 from my accord. I will note the bypass assembly did seem firmly seated in the bottom of the filter and didn’t just fall out. I’m wondering if the ripples matter and the sealing is supposed to occur on the vertical portions where it inserts into the end plate.

 

[Pablo]

Here’s a used sample fe7317 from my accord. I will note the bypass assembly did seem firmly seated in the bottom of the filter and didn’t just fall out. I’m wondering if the ripples matter and the sealing is supposed to occur on the vertical portions where it inserts into the end plate.
View attachment 241614

That's just cheap and nasty

 

[CharlieBauer]

Here’s a used sample fe7317 from my accord. I will note the bypass assembly did seem firmly seated in the bottom of the filter and didn’t just fall out. I’m wondering if the ripples matter and the sealing is supposed to occur on the vertical portions where it inserts into the end plate.
View attachment 241613View attachment 241614View attachment 241615

Looks good. Please provide date code.

In other posts of filters, we usually get a picture where we see the vertical part in the hole of the end cap. Many of them have small protrusions that help hold the leaf spring / bypass valve in place, but which would create a gap in the vertical part. In those cases, the seal is performed on the horizontal part only.

 

[CseBug]

Here’s the date code. And one other picture.

 

[Sayjac]

......I’m wondering if the ripples matter and the sealing is supposed to occur on the vertical portions where it inserts into the end plate.

View attachment 241614View attachment 241615

Yikes, that bypass sealing area ring looks perhaps worse than FE7317 I c&p which showed light coming from the seal area. Not only is it rippled, but the seal ring area is also significantly narrowed on two sides, one side looks worse than the other. Ugh!

Fyi, my FE7317 bypass stayed attached to the endcap when opened. I'd say typical in that respect.

 

[Fair enough]

Here’s a used sample fe7317 from my accord. I will note the bypass assembly did seem firmly seated in the bottom of the filter and didn’t just fall out. I’m wondering if the ripples matter and the sealing is supposed to occur on the vertical portions where it inserts into the end plate.
View attachment 241613View attachment 241614View attachment 241615

Not just the ripples but the bumps that will hold the spring off the end cap. My spring was very tight inside the hole they put protrusions in the hole which makes a perfect pathway for the oil to leak.
Also no ears or protrusions on the bottom end cap, and there is no holding of the adbv from shifting, like with a hard knock. The spring is not that forceful making the problem worse.
They used to address these issues and they did for a reason.
That filter is close in date to my XG2 I just bought to cut open, and has all the same issues, just as bad.