garageman402
$100 Site Donor 2024
I'm also beginning to think this issue is unique to the FE7317
Fram Endurance Flashlight Test in canister
- Thread starter Glenda W.
- Start date
I had thought about that. What were Whips leaking Amsoil and RP models?
Also why it’s important for other c&p’s.
garageman402
$100 Site Donor 2024
He did Fram & SuperTech 3717
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I watched it right after I posted. Glad I remembered right. Fram passes, but they use a cork in the bypass hole. It could very well be that whip city did what Fram never thought to do, or Toyota , or Champ labs. Or the old engineers at Fram knew so put a gasket on the end cap. Bring back the gasket.
I think all filter bubble tests require that bypass be disabled? I’m sure there are other test that check the filter with bypass functioning?
This still begs the ever lurking question >>>
Does a minute gap in this area really materially impact overall filtration? Does having a seal make a measurable difference? Is there any downside to having one there? I can’t imagine all the manufacturers you mentioned weren’t aware of what Whip City was demonstrating? Or, at a minimum, that a gap is present.
Of course the answer is plain……
test a filter with and without a seal there. If there isn’t a version of both in the same model, then add and remove a seal in order to test both versions. If there’s improvement, is it significant AND….Is there any downside to having a seal placed there which could offset any “improvement” ?
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Yes, Andrew mentioned it in his bubble point test video. The whole purpose of the bubble point test is to check the integrity of the media only, not the leaf spring or bypass valve seal. As mentioned previously, ISO 4548-2 is to test the actual bypass valve function. The bubble test was ran per this procedure, as discussed in Andrew's video.
Yes, it can only be proven with appropriate testing, not by speculation and feelings.
See post above, the bubble point test is only to test the integrity of the media. It just so happened that the filter's Andrew tested with the bypass valve built into the end cap that he couldn't block off had to go along for the ride. He was still testing just for bubbles through just the media in the end.
Does Fram or other filter makers know the metal-on-metal seals inside their filters could leak? If not, they should get out of the oil filter design and manufacturing business.
Fram definitely knows about the potential leak point and figured out how to seal it even after removing the fiber seal from the Ultra/Titanium. My best guess is Fram, Amsoil, and RP are relying on Champ Labs on the Endurance style filters. We’re the only idiots checking this stuff 
My next test will be seeing if an OG Titanium bypass fits and seals on the Endurance end cap. But we’ll have to wait a few months…
Well, as I haven't "yet" seen other application light tested, suppose one can't completely rule out that possibility. That said, "my speculation" says other applications will show the same light leakage meaning areas of dirty oil bypass.
I don't plan on testing that speculation as I'm not wasting money on another new FE application. Testing WCW's finding of the FE7317 was my sole intent/goal. Mission accomplished! Further, the 7317 application is a very popular application in usage, and the one I use. But, you're welcome to test your "speculation" it's the'7317 application only' if you choose. Adding, I did find similar results on a Champ made ST MP7317 and posted it with a c&p..
One last point, I read a recent comment regarding the now multiple trial FE7317 light testing and agreed with everything said 'except' for the statement that said, "we don't know if the light seen/oil bypass areas affect efficiency". That's analogous saying we don't know if media tears affect efficiency. Only requires some common sense to say that it does, at least 'for me'. And BR basement/garage testing board (that's not ISO testing) does nothing to dispute that conclusion for me.
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Unless anyone volunteers with a particle count oil analysis would yield some merit and weight to topic of discussion. Unfortunately I do not have a vehicle that would run this same filter to conduct a sample run on. I would encourage the OP to do so if he has one the filters currently in service.
For example the recent Donaldson I was running had a minor media breach that showed small levels of larger particles that align to my suspicion that something was indeed wrong with the oil filter when it was cut opened. An after service sample particle count should yield some accuracy of whats leaking through the filter in relation to what I have experienced.
For example the recent Donaldson I was running had a minor media breach that showed small levels of larger particles that align to my suspicion that something was indeed wrong with the oil filter when it was cut opened. An after service sample particle count should yield some accuracy of whats leaking through the filter in relation to what I have experienced.
It’s been 3 business days. So far, no response from Amsoil.
Received this afternoon
“
Paul,
Thank you for contacting the AMSOIL Technical Service Department with your question. After reviewing the video, there does not appear to be any problems with the filter by-pass valve. It is designed to maintain a 11-17psid. ”
It’s like they missed the point completely
Elevated immediately
That's what I though too.
First level support are not deeply trained on filtration. It is tough because I’m in Alaska
Got my response a little while ago…
“…..,
Thank you for contacting the AMSOIL Technical Service Department with your question. There doesn't appear to be any issues with the valve in the filter in the video. It looks perfectly normal, as that valve isn't gasketed, as it doesn't need to be for how it functions. Please let us know if you have any additional questions.
Thank you,
AMSOIL Technical Services”
Seems they are not addressing the concern. Need to have another tier of technical support for sure.
“…..,
Thank you for contacting the AMSOIL Technical Service Department with your question. There doesn't appear to be any issues with the valve in the filter in the video. It looks perfectly normal, as that valve isn't gasketed, as it doesn't need to be for how it functions. Please let us know if you have any additional questions.
Thank you,
AMSOIL Technical Services”
Seems they are not addressing the concern. Need to have another tier of technical support for sure.
^^^ Yes, they are still not really getting the real concern. It needs to be put into the engineering department for an answer. But that would probably mean escalating it to the engineers (both design and manufacturing) at Champion Labs. Probably not really going to be looked at by someone who can actually give a focused answer.
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I got a call from Amsoil from a Pete; after I requested the concern be addressed by a higher tier of support. Pete forwarded to me the wording that “this was normal” that he was given, but after I explained the change and how it would appear to bypass dirty oil with the valve “NOT” actually in bypass mode; he said it would eventually get filtered on subsequent pass throughs. Obviously, I challenged that as the root concern here and he said he would be able to better word the questions to his folks and get back to me. I asked for their folks to look at this thread and emailed it to him just now. I said we at BITOG are very interested in them looking into it further and to notice that; yes, it still shows light passing while inside the canister and that the stamping / machining of the part of the bypass that forms the seal with the end cap of the filter media to have changed…
To be continued…
To be continued…
wemay
Site Donor 2023
Thanks! Being "normal" would suggest a filter in perpetual partial bypass is normal.I got a call from Amsoil from a Pete; after I requested the concern be addressed by a higher tier of support. Pete forwarded to me the wording that “this was normal” that he was given, but after I explained the change and how it would appear to bypass dirty oil with the valve “NOT” actually in bypass mode; he said it would eventually get filtered on subsequent pass throughs. Obviously, I challenged that as the root concern here and he said he would be able to better word the questions to his folks and get back to me. I asked for their folks to look at this thread and emailed it to him just now. I said we at BITOG are very interested in them looking into it further and to notice that; yes, it still shows light passing while inside the canister and that the stamping / machining of the part of the bypass that forms the seal with the end cap of the filter media to have changed…
To be continued…
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