Fram & E-Cores

[wavinwayne]

Why hasn't Fram gone the E-Core route, like many other oil filter manufacturers? Seems to me that Fram would get a lot more love if they used an E-Core design, instead of the way they're made currently. Isn't it also cheaper to make E-Core filters than something with a steel center tube?

 

[glenncof]

Champ Labs beat them to it.

 

[T-Keith]

E-core is Champions method. While you may see some ideas used, you won't see the exact filter made by someone else. Plus I think Fram's construction methods are already cheaper then other brands.

 

[wavinwayne]

So basically, you guys think Fram will continue with their current manufacturing methods, at least for the forseeable future? They would have to pay a licensing fee to Champion Labs if they wanted to use the E-Core design?

 

[mrsilv04]

Doesn't matter to me if Fram goes to the e-core design or not.

I don't use Frams, and I don't use e-cores either...

 

[Lexura]

Because less chance to fool people into paying $ for inferior designs. It is like Enron and Worldcom decided to merge before the accounting frauds were found. That WOULD make Elliot Spitzer's job a lot easier couple years ago.

 

[turbochem]

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Because less chance to fool people into paying $ for inferior designs.

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Which designs are inferior? If anything, the ecore-type design has a good chance of catching on. Metal endcaps may indeed be just a vestige of old technology and manufacturing techniques.

 

[Rico567]

All spin-on technology must go anyway. A huge waste disposal problem. Impossible, actually, given the current "sealed can" technology, which is typical of inventions from the "Age of Convenience." A return to a cartridge system, as VW has done, seems most likely. Not too different from the setup on the '67 Mercedes 250S we owned once upon a time. Nothing particularly difficult about changing it, it didn't leak, and all there was to dispose of was the oil-soaked paper element.

 

[T-Keith]

True cartridge filters are coming back. But as they do, expect manufacturers to try to cheapen the process on the older style filters as they become less popular and profitable.

 

[wgtoys]

I haven't seen anything which looks like an E-core and wasn't made by Champion labs, so I don't think "many other filter manufacturers" are using such a technology. It is easy to be confused by the fact that the name on the box has nothing to do with who made the filter. STP, WalMart, AC-Delco, Bosch, Champ and others are all name one can find on the same basic E-core design filter made by Champion Labs.

What other company is using similar methods?

 

[Lexura]

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Because less chance to fool people into paying $ for inferior designs.

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Which designs are inferior? If anything, the ecore-type design has a good chance of catching on. Metal endcaps may indeed be just a vestige of old technology and manufacturing techniques.

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How about the lack of a functional bypass valve?

An inferior design, such as Ecore, does not have one

Exact quote from
http://www.ntpog.org/reviews/filters/filters.shtml

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What Not To Use: Bosch, STP, and Wal-Mart Supertech
While both the STP and the Bosch filters were at one point good filters, they are now manufactured off shore of sub-standard parts. The filter assemblies tended not to have even pleats and generally less media than other comparable filters. There was also a complete lack of a well functioning by-pass valve. With most filters there is an obvious and discrete by-pass valve, but with these filters the can spring and the by-pass valve are the same. The real issue is that in order for the filter to properly by-pass the entire filter assembly would have to move down during use. That is actually not possible with filter assembly properly seating into the anti-drain back valve. This means that the by-pass will effectively never work. In the center of the of picture below you see the filter assembly (top) and the can spring/by-pass valve (bottom). (The can spring / by-pass valve would flip over and into the filter assembly.)

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Take a look at the picture, please show me how one metal clip can be a bypass valve AND hold the filter media stationary?

Who designs the old BOSCH, STP and the ever-so-popular SuperTech filter?

 

[turbochem]

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How about the lack of a functional bypass valve? An inferior design, such as Ecore, does not have one

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Says who?

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Exact quote from
http://www.ntpog.org/reviews/filters/filters.shtml

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Oh, that's who says......except.....

The filter being discussed at the provided link (along with picture) is not the E-core design. The E-core design has neither the maligned "clicker" valve nor metal end caps.

 

[Lexura]

Oops, sorry for the mistake.
But how about that Nylon Core, would it stand the high oil pressure at high RPM or repeated cold startup oil surges?

 

[farrarfan1]

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Oops, sorry for the mistake.
But how about that Nylon Core, would it stand the high oil pressure at high RPM or repeated cold startup oil surges?

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Isn't it possible that someone at Champion Labs might've thought about this and maybe came up with a test or two before they started selling them? I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest that maybe, just maybe, they tested 1 or 2 of them. But I could be wrong and Champion decided to do no testing and take their chances that they would hold up.

 

[Virtuoso]

I would suspect if the glue that holds the filter medium to the metal endcaps in most of our beloved filters can sustain the temperatures and pressures; a nylon cage of proper design can do the trick as well.

 

[ewetho]

How about the Plastic(Nylon) housing that cartridge filter reside in? Or how about the plastic valve covers and what not?

Heck the Powerstroke Diesel even has a plastic cage much like the E-Core core that never get replaced.

Another words no concern here. Zip, zero, NADA!!!!

 

[Lexura]

How about concern #1 "Ecore filter media and the Nylon core collapse caused major bearing damage" http://theoildrop.server101.com/forums/s...part=1&vc=1

The guy used the OEM specified oil weight and a GM approved AC Delco filter. Used good old metal center tubed design for 3 years w/o any problem.
Champions Labs has the following reply

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As promised, the service report from Champ.

Complaint: Reportedly the filter collapsed during service. Major engine damage was reported.

Test Results:
1. The nylon core is broken and media has collapsed inward. Previous lab testing indicates a differential pressure in excess of 70 psi required to damage this type filter in this manner.
2. This engine should be equipped with a bypass valve that opens during periods of high differential pressure. This bypass valve has obviously failed to function properly.

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Concern #2 "filter media is not glued to end caps"
http://theoildrop.server101.com/forums/s...part=1&vc=1

 

[turbochem]

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How about concern #1 "Ecore filter media and the Nylon core collapse caused major bearing damage"

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Since you read the reply from Champion on that thread, I'll assume you also read the rest of the thread. Especially the part where the car owner contacted his engine builder and was told by the builder that the engine mounted oil pressure bypass was blocked. A quote from the vehicle owner:

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I called and asked to have it checked out. They said it's blocked and that was typical for a big block Chev. They said the oil pump has a relief in it. Does that help explain anything?

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The "it's blocked" refers to the oil pressure bypass built into the block to protect the oil filter from large pressure differentials within the filter upon cold start up that could tear the media or cause collapse. Because this type of engine was supposed to have a built in bypass, the filter did not.

The engine was the problem.

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Concern #2 "filter media is not glued to end caps"

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In that case, it's possible that the filter was defective. Since the thread cited is almost two years old, I would have expected more complaints had it truly been a design issue.

If a defective filter is all it takes to deem a design "inferior," then no filter manufacturer today has a superior filter design. If you search, all the big names have been implicated at least once for various manufacturing defects.

 

[Lexura]

I think both points are fair. However
For #1, the guy used AC Delco with a metal core design for three years, he even cut open an old AC Delco non-Ecore filter and no collapse is found. It is fair to say that Ecore design have a lot less margin of error.

For #2, I believe the new design requires a lot more learning curve for the manufacturers to make defect % as low as other proven designs. What happened to those defects and can anyone ensure defect rate is low now?

I cut open 20 used FRAM such as EG, TG and Champions Lab designed filters such as K&N, M1, BOSCH/STP. I have never seen an end cap not clued to the media (even the cheap and USED FRAM EG).

For the above reasons, I don't think there is zero concern. On the contrary, there are real concerns that are directly or indirectly related to Ecore design. For same $, I will take my Wix, M1/K&N over Ecore or FRAM on any given day. A lot better value, quality and reliability without taking additional risk on the engine