FRAM and the GM OLM

[rcy]

My wife's 2010 Equinox went 16000KM (on the FF!!) before indicating an oil change was required. Being a Sunday (dealership closed) and being impatient I went to Canadian Tire and the only filter listed (and at the time also the only filter listed at fram.com) for the Equinox was an Extra Guard.

I put this on (it's a company car - the only Fram I would run on my own car is the Extended Guard) and later, while perusing the Fram website, I noticed that the filter is only recommended for 5000 mile intervals. The OLM on the 'nox is going 16000KM (10000 miles).

I sent an email to someone at Fram that I've had previous correspondence with and pointed out that I would have to change the oil filter once during the oil change interval and asked how Fram could recommend a 5000 mile oil filter across the board when OLMs are becoming so prevalent and OCIs are all over the map based on individual driving patterns.

Surprisingly, he agreed with me that Fram had dropped the ball and said he would have it looked into. Disappointingly, I never received a follow up email from him, however, when I recently checked the Fram website, I see that there is an Extended Guard 10000 mile filter being recommended now.

So, kudos to Fram for actually following up on a customer concern, it's just sad that the customer actually had to point this fact out to them.

 

[StevieC]

Richard,

Use another filter... I wouldn't take the Fram past 5K. You can get no-name made Wix filters from Barton Auto-Parts here in Stoney Creek or from an Auto-Xtra parts dealer in their network.

They are excellent, cheap and a good duty filter that will last 16,000 KM's. Failing that use GM filters or Napa Filters.

 

[rcy]

Oh, yes..forgot to mention at 4000km into the interval, I put the GM recommended Delco filter on.

 

[pbm]

16000km on the FF fill in a GM is far more than I would do. I know its a company car but there must have been a ton of wear metals floating around in that oil. I'm sure the FF is dino. I might follow the OLM after the car has had an oil change at 3K and 6 or 7K to remove break-in junk.

 

[ARCOgraphite]

That engine will be junk if you are not running a real synthetic oil 10K.

 

[StevieC]

It's a company car, it's under warranty and he is following the OLM like GM told him to do... WHO CARES IS MY OPINION!

Do a used oil analysis and tell us whats going on!!! I will give you one of my Toromont-CAT kits that is pre-paid and some Quiznos GC's

 

[rcy]

Originally Posted By: pbm
16000km on the FF fill in a GM is far more than I would do. I know its a company car but there must have been a ton of wear metals floating around in that oil. I'm sure the FF is dino. I might follow the OLM after the car has had an oil change at 3K and 6 or 7K to remove break-in junk.


The owner's manual says follow OLM. Nothing about changing the factory fill oil early etc. Just the usual warning about driving at a constant speed etc. during the first XXXX kilometres (first 1000 IIRC).

As with Honda and the FF recommendations, why would I second guess the GM engineers.

 

[Gene K]

Ive run the FRAM Commercial Filters for 30,000+ Miles. While their are other brands I prefer automatically assuming every Fram Filter is junk is simply uncalled for in my opinion. The 5,000 mile rating was likely more about marketing than design limit. I would not be suprised if the new 10,000 mile filter is identical to the 5,000 mile filter.

 

[rcy]

Originally Posted By: StevieC
It's a company car, it's under warranty and he is following the OLM like GM told him to do... WHO CARES IS MY OPINION!

Do a used oil analysis and tell us whats going on!!! I will give you one of my Toromont-CAT kits that is pre-paid and some Quiznos GC's

Actually I saved a sample of the FF, but it's now a couple months old, sitting in my garage sealed in the sample bottle. Do you think it's too old to test now? Maybe I'll call Toromont and ask.

Funny you should mention Toromont - I was just thinking of driving over the Skyway to pick up one of their kits to have the oil tested.

I also have a two month old sample of Toyota 0w20 from the RX400h with 10000KM on it that I was debating having tested. That oil looked very good when I pulled a sample at 5000KM that I'm thinking it's a waste of money having it tested.

 

[rcy]

Originally Posted By: ARCOgraphite
That engine will be junk if you are not running a real synthetic oil 10K.


So the GM OLM is useless? That's not what I've heard/read.

 

[rcy]

I would not be suprised if the new 10,000 mile filter is identical to the 5,000 mile filter. [/quote

Be surprised.

Do a search right in this forum for Extra Guard and Extended (or Xtended) Guard. The pictures show the very MAJOR differences between the two filters - metal endcaps, wire reinforced media, metal spring loaded bypass in the 10000 mile filter vs cardboard endcaps, non reinforced media and plastic bypass valve in the 5000 mile filter.

 

[panthermike]

I'd bet it can go the distance. I don't run OCI's that long, but my brother used to on his 94' Accord. He ran one OCI of 13,000 miles and another 19,000; using Dino and the standard Frams! While I wouldn't do it, the car still ran and had no unusual noises, although the oil did look quite disgusting. For sure I'd be more comfortable w/ the Extended Guard on that interval.

 

[rcy]

Originally Posted By: rcy
Originally Posted By: StevieC
It's a company car, it's under warranty and he is following the OLM like GM told him to do... WHO CARES IS MY OPINION!

Do a used oil analysis and tell us whats going on!!! I will give you one of my Toromont-CAT kits that is pre-paid and some Quiznos GC's

Actually I saved a sample of the FF, but it's now a couple months old, sitting in my garage sealed in the sample bottle. Do you think it's too old to test now? Maybe I'll call Toromont and ask.



Blackstone and Wearcheck say no problem.

Toromont says 'should' be no problem - one or two numbers might be off.

 

[mechanicx]

I kind of question how well a Fram extra guard holds up for 10K miles, but supposedly the filter meets OEM requirements, so should be able to meet OLM interval. The Fram extended guard is a quality filter.

 

[StevieC]

Originally Posted By: rcy
Originally Posted By: StevieC
It's a company car, it's under warranty and he is following the OLM like GM told him to do... WHO CARES IS MY OPINION!

Do a used oil analysis and tell us whats going on!!! I will give you one of my Toromont-CAT kits that is pre-paid and some Quiznos GC's

Actually I saved a sample of the FF, but it's now a couple months old, sitting in my garage sealed in the sample bottle. Do you think it's too old to test now? Maybe I'll call Toromont and ask.

Funny you should mention Toromont - I was just thinking of driving over the Skyway to pick up one of their kits to have the oil tested.

I also have a two month old sample of Toyota 0w20 from the RX400h with 10000KM on it that I was debating having tested. That oil looked very good when I pulled a sample at 5000KM that I'm thinking it's a waste of money having it tested.


A couple months isn't too bad... I would send it in. I bought the big box of Toromont-Kits so they worked out to be $16 per test with the TBN test included, all you have to do is ask for it. If you buy 1 kit they are like $25 each.

If you want one you can meet me at a Timmies somewhere and I will sell you one for $16.

 

[calvin1]

The 3.4L V6 in my 2000 Impala gave me 210k trouble free miles on Mobil Clean 5000 and the Orange Can O'Death changed 500-1,500 miles after the OLM tripped. I sold it for peanuts because the transmission burned out. This was before I knew of the horror that is the OCD. If I had it to do over again the only thing I'd change is to use an AC Delco filter instead, and maybe Pennzoil conventional instead of MC. I've yet to see any evidence that the GM OLM lead anyone to run an OCI that did damage to the engine.

 

[rcy]

Originally Posted By: StevieC
Originally Posted By: rcy
Originally Posted By: StevieC
It's a company car, it's under warranty and he is following the OLM like GM told him to do... WHO CARES IS MY OPINION!

Do a used oil analysis and tell us whats going on!!! I will give you one of my Toromont-CAT kits that is pre-paid and some Quiznos GC's

Actually I saved a sample of the FF, but it's now a couple months old, sitting in my garage sealed in the sample bottle. Do you think it's too old to test now? Maybe I'll call Toromont and ask.

Funny you should mention Toromont - I was just thinking of driving over the Skyway to pick up one of their kits to have the oil tested.

I also have a two month old sample of Toyota 0w20 from the RX400h with 10000KM on it that I was debating having tested. That oil looked very good when I pulled a sample at 5000KM that I'm thinking it's a waste of money having it tested.


A couple months isn't too bad... I would send it in. I bought the big box of Toromont-Kits so they worked out to be $16 per test with the TBN test included, all you have to do is ask for it. If you buy 1 kit they are like $25 each.

If you want one you can meet me at a Timmies somewhere and I will sell you one for $16.



Thanks for the offer Steve, but just for kicks and giggles, I dropped the sample off at Wearcheck today (they're five minutes from my house). Paid extra for the TBN (I know Toromont is free for this) to see how much life was left in the oil and thus see how accurate the OLM is.

This is the sample from the Equinox btw (GM FF), not the RX400h (Toyota 0W20).

 

[StevieC]

Anytime I got the stuff if you got the cash...

 

[rcy]

Might take you up on that to use on the Toyota 0W20 that I also haven't sent in for UOA.

 

[Gary Allan]

The OLM is the great equalizer for our time/mileage concepts when it comes to sump/filter fatigue. No fudge factors to cover the fringe.