As previous owner of both a '73 Vega and a '95 nikasil BMW I can see a GT-R in my future.
Fords spray on cylinder wall
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Originally Posted By: MrHorspwer
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Wondering about durability? We did, too. Ford claims to have taken taken beat-to-[censored] durability-cycle engines with the equivalent of 250,000 miles of wear and, upon inspection, discovered that the initial hone patterns appeared brand-new — the piston rings hadn't polished them away
As if the automakers who failed the Nikasil experiment didn't do any durability testing?
Ford failed the spray on cylinder liners in the past as well, things change.
Quote:
Wondering about durability? We did, too. Ford claims to have taken taken beat-to-[censored] durability-cycle engines with the equivalent of 250,000 miles of wear and, upon inspection, discovered that the initial hone patterns appeared brand-new — the piston rings hadn't polished them away
As if the automakers who failed the Nikasil experiment didn't do any durability testing?
Ford failed the spray on cylinder liners in the past as well, things change.
I don't doubt that it works. Most engines never get rebuilt so not being able to bore out the cylinder or replace the liner isn't an issue. But still on a performance engine and on V8s, it's nicer for them to be easily rebuildable/modable.
Originally Posted By: mechanicx
I don't doubt that it works. Most engines never get rebuilt so not being able to bore out the cylinder or replace the liner isn't an issue. But still on a performance engine and on V8s, it's nicer for them to be easily rebuildable/modable.
In Japan, there are enormous taxation penalties which lead to early engine rebuilds.
The 2008-UP Nissan GT-R is all over Japan and has this technology.
I don't doubt that it works. Most engines never get rebuilt so not being able to bore out the cylinder or replace the liner isn't an issue. But still on a performance engine and on V8s, it's nicer for them to be easily rebuildable/modable.
In Japan, there are enormous taxation penalties which lead to early engine rebuilds.
The 2008-UP Nissan GT-R is all over Japan and has this technology.
Originally Posted By: mechanicx
I don't doubt that it works. Most engines never get rebuilt so not being able to bore out the cylinder or replace the liner isn't an issue. But still on a performance engine and on V8s, it's nicer for them to be easily rebuildable/modable.
These things can't handle a re-hone? I'm not sure how to take that last paragraph in the article.
I don't doubt that it works. Most engines never get rebuilt so not being able to bore out the cylinder or replace the liner isn't an issue. But still on a performance engine and on V8s, it's nicer for them to be easily rebuildable/modable.
These things can't handle a re-hone? I'm not sure how to take that last paragraph in the article.
Yeah, but that would require your local machine shop have this machine to be able to do it.
I'd be interested to see the percentages, but boring out engines is a lost art. For average consumers, either the block is good, or there's a new/boneyard/rebuilt long block. Dealership having a block rehoned? Haven't heard that in my lifetime. Sure, for enthusiasts a machine shop is still relatively common. But I still see things headed away from that. The Gen X/Y/? tuners? If your WRX or Honda engine is blown you get a new engine.
This is cool. The fact it costs less is probably better than the heat dissapation. The "absorbs oil" isn't a big deal, cast iron is very porus and has been used for decades.
This is cool. The fact it costs less is probably better than the heat dissapation. The "absorbs oil" isn't a big deal, cast iron is very porus and has been used for decades.
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Subaru and Honda engines frequently get rebuilt if the driver is committed to building a higher performance car. You can't simply bolt on custom compression pistons, strengthened cylinder liners, and stroker cranks the way you would bolt on a performance exhaust or turbocharger.
Anyway, many car manufacturers have their own line of rebuilt engines, so I think what Ford will do is offer an engine block that was resprayed, and put a core charge on the service, just like any other remanufactured engine.
Anyway, many car manufacturers have their own line of rebuilt engines, so I think what Ford will do is offer an engine block that was resprayed, and put a core charge on the service, just like any other remanufactured engine.
Hmm.
This got me thinking about Ford's aftermarket FRPP blocks. I wonder if they will do it to those. I would like an aluminum 5.0L big bore Modular block with this tech.
This got me thinking about Ford's aftermarket FRPP blocks. I wonder if they will do it to those. I would like an aluminum 5.0L big bore Modular block with this tech.
Originally Posted By: artificialist
Subaru and Honda engines frequently get rebuilt if the driver is committed to building a higher performance car. You can't simply bolt on custom compression pistons, strengthened cylinder liners, and stroker cranks the way you would bolt on a performance exhaust or turbocharger.
Anyway, many car manufacturers have their own line of rebuilt engines, so I think what Ford will do is offer an engine block that was resprayed, and put a core charge on the service, just like any other remanufactured engine.
Here how I look at it. If one machine can do virtually any size bore like they say. Then it may be possible that a shop could have one machine to cover recoating all the engines they do. They could then over boar by a little bit and put in a thicker liner or such.
Subaru and Honda engines frequently get rebuilt if the driver is committed to building a higher performance car. You can't simply bolt on custom compression pistons, strengthened cylinder liners, and stroker cranks the way you would bolt on a performance exhaust or turbocharger.
Anyway, many car manufacturers have their own line of rebuilt engines, so I think what Ford will do is offer an engine block that was resprayed, and put a core charge on the service, just like any other remanufactured engine.
Here how I look at it. If one machine can do virtually any size bore like they say. Then it may be possible that a shop could have one machine to cover recoating all the engines they do. They could then over boar by a little bit and put in a thicker liner or such.
No better than adding a can of Restore.
That type of technology has been around for ages, and is (when sorted), very reliable.
In this case, they are basically creating a sprayed in liner, which should be very reliable.
Only issue I have with such technologies is ultimately in recycling, and keeping alloys pure. We are finding increasing levels of copper in steel boiler tube etc, and molecularly bonding dissimilar metals makes seperation for re-use more difficult or impossible.
One company down here is experimenting with laser welding, and showed me an expernimental block of computer controlled laser welded material that started off as pure 410 stainless at one end, and pure stellite at the other.
In this case, they are basically creating a sprayed in liner, which should be very reliable.
Only issue I have with such technologies is ultimately in recycling, and keeping alloys pure. We are finding increasing levels of copper in steel boiler tube etc, and molecularly bonding dissimilar metals makes seperation for re-use more difficult or impossible.
One company down here is experimenting with laser welding, and showed me an expernimental block of computer controlled laser welded material that started off as pure 410 stainless at one end, and pure stellite at the other.
that sounds like magic.
But no one can say how reliable this is until they mass produce it in high volume.
Then, after a few years, we'll know what's up.
And as was said earlier, iron has a long history of working well and lasting a LONG time.
But no one can say how reliable this is until they mass produce it in high volume.
Then, after a few years, we'll know what's up.
And as was said earlier, iron has a long history of working well and lasting a LONG time.
When it's all said and done, this is pretty much still an iron bore, with a conventional crosshatch finish.
Instead of a pressed in liner, a 'spray' iron is used.
Not just a micro layer either - it's .6 mm!
Weight and machining are lessened with this process.
It sounds good for alloy blocks.
Note that this had been developed since 1991!
Instead of a pressed in liner, a 'spray' iron is used.
Not just a micro layer either - it's .6 mm!
Weight and machining are lessened with this process.
It sounds good for alloy blocks.
Note that this had been developed since 1991!
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