Ford vs. GM Reliability

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: CROWNVIC4LIFE
Originally Posted By: wafrederick1
If there is a hard way to design things and do things the hard way,FORD!You will cuss a lot when working on a Ford.Plus Ford loves to do 6 month changes.Some of the Ford engines are Mazda engines,the 2.0 4 cyl. and 2.5 V6 engines are Mazda engines.


Wafrederick Please take your medication..You make no sense at all when your off your meds.


He makes no sense period.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: Kruse
Originally Posted By: NHHEMI

Never heard about trashing pistons on 302's if you cross wires? That sure seems like a internet myth to me.


ALLEGEDLY, that's why they changed the firing order on some late 302 motors to match the 351 firing order. The real reason? Who knows.


Nope.

non-performance 302's right up until they went COP were 1-5-4-2-6-3-7-8.

This is the EXACT SAME firing order (cylinder-wise) as the small block Chevrolet.

Because Ford observed more rod-bearing wear on higher performance variants of the Windsor with this firing order, the 1-3-7-2-6-5-4-8 firing order came about.

They make camshafts for the SBC that switches them to fire their cylinders in the same manner as the HO 302/351W.

The revised firing order provides much better load distribution on the crankshaft and makes MORE POWER.

This is why it was adopted as the OBD-II V8 firing order and why anybody with an LSx or "HEMI" is actually using the cylinder firing order of the 302HO.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: NHHEMI
Originally Posted By: wafrederick1
Oil pans on the 302s,351s,and the 300 straight sixes have the worst oil pans,Rust out 99.9% most of the time.This includes the 3.0s and 3.8s.Replacing one on a GM is a rarity.Watch out where you put the plug wires on a 302,will detinate a piston if you cross one on the driver's side.Ford has a one year interchange on their transmissions.Ford needs to get rid of the studs on their torque converters and go with bolts instead,worst ones to line up.


I saw a lot of oil pan problems on 351 equipped trucks. I can back you up on the 351 pan rust out issue. It was VERY common back when I worked in the auto field in general and I saw it all the time when I worked at the Ford dealer( Parts & Service ). It was not a serious issue for 302's and the 300 straight 6 engines, like it was for the 351's, however that I ever saw.

Never heard about trashing pistons on 302's if you cross wires? That sure seems like a internet myth to me. Never heard of issues with the TC bolts either? Not when I worked in the auto field and not since?


I've heard of issues with trucks from the 80's with the 351W in regards to the pans rusting out. Not so much with the 302, though it was primarily rust-belt driven vehicles.

The pan on my Lincoln has been replaced once (New Brunswick), but the pan on my Mustang engine is original, and has no rust.

The 300 I-6 in my F-250 also had the original pan, nor have I EVER heard of any issues with this engine and its oil pan.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: NHHEMI
Originally Posted By: eljefino
Originally Posted By: wafrederick1
If there is a hard way to design things and do things the hard way,FORD!You will cuss a lot when working on a Ford.


quoted for truth.



At the Ford dealer where I worked Parts & Service for a couple years I saw some really crazy stuff. The most ridiculous that I can recall was having to change a heater core on a Taurus/Sable. It literally required pulling the entire dashboard out. The mechanics actually drew straws to see who got stuck doing it. The really sucky thing was it was a very common failure. Poor design from the part to the location.

Any mfg can do stuff like that but it seemed like I saw a lot more with Ford vehicles than others when I was heavily involved with the auto service, parts, body work field.



LOL, Mustang heater core was the same way from the 80's, as are many other Ford vehicles. But because the cores weren't common failures, they aren't known for it like the Taurus/Sable.

A client of mine runs a shop (Jay), and so when I am out visiting him, I get to see a lot of stuff I wouldn't see otherwise (imports, Dodge products, lol!). He's an ex-GM Electronics Specialist with more GM certifications than I can count.

He's shown me bone-head designs from every manufacturer. The front calliper setup on the Dakota for example just blows my mind.

I think a lot of it comes down to whether the part (or parts) that are engineering FUBAR's have an impact on the vehicle's reliability or not.

Example: F-150 ball joints vs GM Intake gaskets.

Both are a PITA. But while one is an embarrassing inconvenience if it lets go (ball-joint), the other can leave you with a bill in the thousands for a new engine. So which vehicle is more likely to get scrapped in this scenario?

As Jay says: "They all have some great ideas and some not so great ones."

 

[wytstang]

*Runs outside to check oil pan on his 302*
Yup still rust free
*Pops hood to check spark plug wires for dynamite so I don't "detonate" a piston*
Sweet I won't blow up; no dynamite WoOt wOoT

 

[Peted]

For the record. My father thinks fords are pieces of [censored] too. Though he has had great luck with Chevrolet's but better luck with German vehicles.

 

[Drew2000]

I think the OP is concerned with vehicles produced in this century, not anecdotal stories from 50 years ago that have no bearing on today's vehicles.

Last real POS engine from Ford was the 3.8 Taurus/Windstar etc. with plenty of head gasket failures. Ford really has it together now over the past 5-7 years or so. The new offerings from GM seem OK, but a little late to save the company.

 

[jigen]

I like both Ford and GM, but only owned GMs.

From my experience it does seem true that for basic maintenance Fords are usually a bit harder to work on than GMs. But again that's just from my experience.

GM's interior build quality seems to usually be inferior though. Little plastic latches and buttons are the only things that end up breaking on my cars.

 

[kkreit01]

Is this even a question? Pick up any CR, and count the number of black dots for most used GMs. You will soon run out of fingers and toes.

 

[PT1]

Originally Posted By: fordboy
FORD IS BETTER!


WRONG! Ford is WAY WAY WAY Better...

 

[CROWNVIC4LIFE]

Originally Posted By: PT1
Originally Posted By: fordboy
FORD IS BETTER!


WRONG! Ford is WAY WAY WAY Better...

WRONG! Ford is WAY WAY WAY WAY Better!

 

[BrianWC]

Goodness. What has this forum come to?

 

[StevieC]

Originally Posted By: CROWNVIC4LIFE
Originally Posted By: PT1
Originally Posted By: fordboy
FORD IS BETTER!


WRONG! Ford is WAY WAY WAY Better...

WRONG! Ford is WAY WAY WAY WAY Better!


Get a room you two!

 

[daves87rs]

I'm just surprised that no one got their head chopped off, or broke out the toyota card.


I would still agree with most posters...they are pretty much the same.

 

[Tundraz]

Fords appears to be b etter because all thier good cars and SUV's are actually Mazdas, the Fusion and Mercury variant is nothing but a Mazda 6 , the CX7 and CX9 are actually Mazdas.

The Mazda 6 and the Ford Mustang is made on the same assembly line, why is the Mazda a high quality vehicle and the Fords junk? beats me , you couldnt pay me to drive a Ford.
Ford cut too many corners, anything to save a penny as long as the customer is stuck with the headaches.

My wife had a Lincoln Continental,the power steering pump were always failing like once a month, upon close examination i realize that the pump were mostly made of plastic, plastic, can you believe that? every couple of week the vibration from the drive train would crack the pump.
Tundraz

 

[milwaukee]

I think Ford is the best in the business right now. I would not be shocked if Ford keeps climbing and is soon the maker others wish to be.

 

[NHHEMI]

Originally Posted By: kkreit01
Is this even a question? Pick up any CR, and count the number of black dots for most used GMs. You will soon run out of fingers and toes.


I hope you aren't buying a vehicle, or forming an opinion on a car/auto mfg, based on CR?

 

[Pop_Rivit]

Originally Posted By: XS650


What language was it written in?


"In what language was that written?" is a clearer sentence and avoids the ending preposition controversy, especially when commenting on language skills.

 

[XS650]

Originally Posted By: Pop_Rivit
Originally Posted By: XS650


What language was it written in?


"In what language was that written?" is a clearer sentence and avoids the ending preposition controversy, especially when commenting on language skills.


Had I been writing in Latin, I would have followed Latin grammar rules, but I wasn't so I didn't.

http://www.yourdictionary.com/library/ling009.html

http://www.chicagomanualofstyle.org/CMS_FAQ/Prepositions/Prepositions04.html

Quote:
The fact of the matter is, however, English simply does not have case endings on nouns that are objects of prepositions, so the reason for keeping prepositions and their object nouns together is wholly irrelevant to English. You may keep them together or not. You'll never spend a night in jail either way.

 

[Win]

Originally Posted By: The Critic


What has your experience been?


Anecdotally, out of an '83 Turbo T-Bird, an '89 Mustang, and a '93 Explorer, the only one that needed any repair was the Explorer that took a rock through the A/C condenser.

My '99 S-10, and my G8 have been trouble free. My '04 GTO was trouble free until it got struck by lightning in one of our mega storms, but after about $8K in repairs it was trouble free after that (always check your insurance policy to make sure it includes coverage for lightning strikes - good policies do). Hard to blame the manufacturer for something like that.

The '96 Blazer with all wheel drive has been a money pit. I just put a new 4L60E in it a month or so ago, and I don't even keep track anymore of little things like A/C compressors, alternators, starters, etc. I bought it used at an auction, so if I had owned it from new like my other cars, the experience might have been different.

So I would say my experience has been pretty good with both GM and Ford products.

The worst I ever had was Honda and VW. The VW was terrible, but the Honda was worse by far, nothing has ever even come close to how crummy the Honda was.

If I had a choice between slamming my hand in a car door every day for the rest of my life, or driving a Honda, I would have one mangled hand.

edit: Forget about the '97 Expy that was also trouble free when I had it; I gave it to the kids to tow their boat with, and AFAIK, it has needed only an A/C compressor replacement since.