Can you still buy it?
Ford Ranger/ mazda 5 spd requires Mercon ?
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What Rand said.
The 5-speed automatic needs Mercon V, even if the manual says Mercon.
With the 5-speed manual a lot of universal ATFs will work fine. It may be labeled Dex/Merc or something like that. I used Pennzoil Dex/Merc in a gallon jug from Wal-Mart when I had an M5OD equipped Ranger.
The 5-speed automatic needs Mercon V, even if the manual says Mercon.
With the 5-speed manual a lot of universal ATFs will work fine. It may be labeled Dex/Merc or something like that. I used Pennzoil Dex/Merc in a gallon jug from Wal-Mart when I had an M5OD equipped Ranger.
With the Mazda M5OD use Redline MTL and not ATF
Many people use Redline D4 in their 5sp Ranger manual.
I know nothing about Redline MTL . The Mazda M50D specs Mercon as a lube. That means the clearances are designed for a low viscosity lube. Thicker lube may not provide the same degree of protection, so I'll just stick with Dex/ mercon
I've used Dex3/Mercon in my 93 Ranger 5sp. I'm currently using Motorcraft branded Mercon for now. (got 4 bottles for free).
I had Valvoline in it, quaker state, Redline D4 and autozone's coastal in it.
I have never felt any difference in any brand of mercon, synthetic or conventional.
I had Valvoline in it, quaker state, Redline D4 and autozone's coastal in it.
I have never felt any difference in any brand of mercon, synthetic or conventional.
Originally Posted By: andyd
I know nothing about Redline MTL . The Mazda M50D specs Mercon as a lube. That means the clearances are designed for a low viscosity lube. Thicker lube may not provide the same degree of protection, so I'll just stick with Dex/ mercon
How do you know the trans was not back spec'd for ATF? And what about the bean counters telling the engineers to mandate ATF [at OUR long term expense!]?
Do you know that ATF has no AW or EP additives? That it is friction modified the wrong way for manual trans synchros?
Pal, a dedicated light manual trans lube is best. Redline or Amsoil , or even dino Pennzoil Synchromesh is very good.
If you want ATF, then Mercon V is OK instead of Mercon. It wasn't, but they changed their minds and said it was fine!
I'd at least step up to a full synth version - Mobil 1 is readily available.
I know nothing about Redline MTL . The Mazda M50D specs Mercon as a lube. That means the clearances are designed for a low viscosity lube. Thicker lube may not provide the same degree of protection, so I'll just stick with Dex/ mercon
How do you know the trans was not back spec'd for ATF? And what about the bean counters telling the engineers to mandate ATF [at OUR long term expense!]?
Do you know that ATF has no AW or EP additives? That it is friction modified the wrong way for manual trans synchros?
Pal, a dedicated light manual trans lube is best. Redline or Amsoil , or even dino Pennzoil Synchromesh is very good.
If you want ATF, then Mercon V is OK instead of Mercon. It wasn't, but they changed their minds and said it was fine!
I'd at least step up to a full synth version - Mobil 1 is readily available.
The M5OD has always used ATF as the fluid, back to its introduction in 1987. Gear oil will destroy these transmissions...plenty of quick lubes have made that mistake.
A lot of people use some sort of MTF in them and they seem to do fine with that, but they also do fine with ATF. I have never heard of an M5OD filled with ATF failing...not unless it leaked most of it out of the shift rail plugs.
A lot of people use some sort of MTF in them and they seem to do fine with that, but they also do fine with ATF. I have never heard of an M5OD filled with ATF failing...not unless it leaked most of it out of the shift rail plugs.
Originally Posted By: 01rangerxl
The M5OD has always used ATF as the fluid, back to its introduction in 1987. Gear oil will destroy these transmissions...plenty of quick lubes have made that mistake.
A lot of people use some sort of MTF in them and they seem to do fine with that, but they also do fine with ATF. I have never heard of an M5OD filled with ATF failing...not unless it leaked most of it out of the shift rail plugs.
I had a Ford Explorer with the M5OD that failed with ATF, and cost me $1900 to rebuild. That's how I found this site back in 2003. There must be well over 100 threads on this very topic of ATF use in the M5od. Most support a fluid with real protection over ATF which is designed for AUTOMATIC transmission, not manuals.
The M5OD has always used ATF as the fluid, back to its introduction in 1987. Gear oil will destroy these transmissions...plenty of quick lubes have made that mistake.
A lot of people use some sort of MTF in them and they seem to do fine with that, but they also do fine with ATF. I have never heard of an M5OD filled with ATF failing...not unless it leaked most of it out of the shift rail plugs.
I had a Ford Explorer with the M5OD that failed with ATF, and cost me $1900 to rebuild. That's how I found this site back in 2003. There must be well over 100 threads on this very topic of ATF use in the M5od. Most support a fluid with real protection over ATF which is designed for AUTOMATIC transmission, not manuals.
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Originally Posted By: Bluestream
Originally Posted By: 01rangerxl
The M5OD has always used ATF as the fluid, back to its introduction in 1987. Gear oil will destroy these transmissions...plenty of quick lubes have made that mistake.
A lot of people use some sort of MTF in them and they seem to do fine with that, but they also do fine with ATF. I have never heard of an M5OD filled with ATF failing...not unless it leaked most of it out of the shift rail plugs.
I had a Ford Explorer with the M5OD that failed with ATF, and cost me $1900 to rebuild. That's how I found this site back in 2003. There must be well over 100 threads on this very topic of ATF use in the M5od. Most support a fluid with real protection over ATF which is designed for AUTOMATIC transmission, not manuals.
What ATF was in it and what exactly failed? Was it full with no leaks? Shift rail plugs can leak without dripping to the ground and still cause enough fluid loss to kill the trans.
Millions of M5ODs operate on ATF, often the factory fill, with no issues.
Originally Posted By: 01rangerxl
The M5OD has always used ATF as the fluid, back to its introduction in 1987. Gear oil will destroy these transmissions...plenty of quick lubes have made that mistake.
A lot of people use some sort of MTF in them and they seem to do fine with that, but they also do fine with ATF. I have never heard of an M5OD filled with ATF failing...not unless it leaked most of it out of the shift rail plugs.
I had a Ford Explorer with the M5OD that failed with ATF, and cost me $1900 to rebuild. That's how I found this site back in 2003. There must be well over 100 threads on this very topic of ATF use in the M5od. Most support a fluid with real protection over ATF which is designed for AUTOMATIC transmission, not manuals.
What ATF was in it and what exactly failed? Was it full with no leaks? Shift rail plugs can leak without dripping to the ground and still cause enough fluid loss to kill the trans.
Millions of M5ODs operate on ATF, often the factory fill, with no issues.
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Hmm... My friend "Monkey Face" had one of these... stick shift... all manuals and maintenence guides said MERCON ATF.. so we put some WPP made Mercon rated stuff in there after Randy and Monkey Face replaced the clutch. He drove it like that for a good long time before he sold it. We never saw any ill effects from ATF in that transmission.
Originally Posted By: 01rangerxl
The M5OD has always used ATF as the fluid, back to its introduction in 1987. Gear oil will destroy these transmissions...plenty of quick lubes have made that mistake.
A lot of people use some sort of MTF in them and they seem to do fine with that, but they also do fine with ATF. I have never heard of an M5OD filled with ATF failing...not unless it leaked most of it out of the shift rail plugs.
Who said anything about gear oil?
And how could it ruin a trans anyway?
A dedicated manual trans lube is far superior to ATF in this and many other applications.
As civilians, we do not have the concern of stocking one fluid for manual trans, auto trans, transfer cases, and power steering systems. Don't think for a minute that is or was not a consideration for siding with ATF. cold weather shifting to eliminate any customer complaints is also high on the list. Wear and performance are only ok - only adequate, and that was good enough.
The M5OD has always used ATF as the fluid, back to its introduction in 1987. Gear oil will destroy these transmissions...plenty of quick lubes have made that mistake.
A lot of people use some sort of MTF in them and they seem to do fine with that, but they also do fine with ATF. I have never heard of an M5OD filled with ATF failing...not unless it leaked most of it out of the shift rail plugs.
Who said anything about gear oil?
And how could it ruin a trans anyway?
A dedicated manual trans lube is far superior to ATF in this and many other applications.
As civilians, we do not have the concern of stocking one fluid for manual trans, auto trans, transfer cases, and power steering systems. Don't think for a minute that is or was not a consideration for siding with ATF. cold weather shifting to eliminate any customer complaints is also high on the list. Wear and performance are only ok - only adequate, and that was good enough.
Originally Posted By: mechtech2
Who said anything about gear oil?
And how could it ruin a trans anyway?
The M5OD is splash lubricated and designed to use ATF. There are bearings at the front and rear of the trans that do not like gear oil. My point is that what works in one manual or most manuals does not work in all manuals. I have heard of people using boutique oils to make shifting "smoother" or something like that, but never in response to a failing transmission. I don't doubt what happened to Bluestream, I'm just not sure that it was directly caused by using ATF unless there was something about that ATF that kept it from meeting Mercon specs.
FWIW, there have been four M5OD equipped trucks in my family, 1993-2001. Three of them were badly beaten work trucks that were bought new and definitely never had the fluid changed. No transmission issues ever.
Who said anything about gear oil?
And how could it ruin a trans anyway?
The M5OD is splash lubricated and designed to use ATF. There are bearings at the front and rear of the trans that do not like gear oil. My point is that what works in one manual or most manuals does not work in all manuals. I have heard of people using boutique oils to make shifting "smoother" or something like that, but never in response to a failing transmission. I don't doubt what happened to Bluestream, I'm just not sure that it was directly caused by using ATF unless there was something about that ATF that kept it from meeting Mercon specs.
FWIW, there have been four M5OD equipped trucks in my family, 1993-2001. Three of them were badly beaten work trucks that were bought new and definitely never had the fluid changed. No transmission issues ever.
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Who said it was designed to use ATF?
Who said it was the absolute best fluid to use?
It was SPEC'D to use ATF. Big difference!
For any number of reasons of cost, simplicity of fluid stocking, and less customer complaints from poor cold weather shifting.
Who said it was the absolute best fluid to use?
It was SPEC'D to use ATF. Big difference!
For any number of reasons of cost, simplicity of fluid stocking, and less customer complaints from poor cold weather shifting.
Mazda knew what fluid would be used in the M5OD when they developed it. I highly doubt they designed it to use some expensive, uncommon MTF then Ford said "nope, we'll just put Mercon in it." Of course it was done out of convenience, simplicity and cost savings, but that doesn't make it a poor choice for the application. Ford also put ATF in my truck's power steering pump, out of convenience. That's fine since it works perfectly good in that application, probably just as good as a dedicated power steering fluid would.
There probably are fluids that are "better" than Mercon for this application, but what really constitutes better? When M5ODs can easily rack up 300,000+ miles on ATF with no issues, what's the problem with it? Aside from leaking slave cylinders, these transmissions have a reputation for being reliable, and the vast majority are not running a specialized MTF.
If people like using a pricier MTF because they feel it improves shifting or gives them more peace of mind, there's nothing wrong with that. I just haven't seen anything compelling that shows that ATF is damaging to these transmissions.
There probably are fluids that are "better" than Mercon for this application, but what really constitutes better? When M5ODs can easily rack up 300,000+ miles on ATF with no issues, what's the problem with it? Aside from leaking slave cylinders, these transmissions have a reputation for being reliable, and the vast majority are not running a specialized MTF.
If people like using a pricier MTF because they feel it improves shifting or gives them more peace of mind, there's nothing wrong with that. I just haven't seen anything compelling that shows that ATF is damaging to these transmissions.
Originally Posted By: 01rangerxl
Originally Posted By: Bluestream
Originally Posted By: 01rangerxl
The M5OD has always used ATF as the fluid, back to its introduction in 1987. Gear oil will destroy these transmissions...plenty of quick lubes have made that mistake.
A lot of people use some sort of MTF in them and they seem to do fine with that, but they also do fine with ATF. I have never heard of an M5OD filled with ATF failing...not unless it leaked most of it out of the shift rail plugs.
I had a Ford Explorer with the M5OD that failed with ATF, and cost me $1900 to rebuild. That's how I found this site back in 2003. There must be well over 100 threads on this very topic of ATF use in the M5od. Most support a fluid with real protection over ATF which is designed for AUTOMATIC transmission, not manuals.
What ATF was in it and what exactly failed? Was it full with no leaks? Shift rail plugs can leak without dripping to the ground and still cause enough fluid loss to kill the trans.
Millions of M5ODs operate on ATF, often the factory fill, with no issues.
I was towing a heavy boat with my 91 Ford Explorer when the transmission bearings failed. FWIW Mazda in other parts of the world does not use ATF in the M05D. Only in NA where the cranky consumer can't tolerate a few stiff shifts when the gear oil is cold.
Ford no longer recommends AFT for this unit, they now make a special "Motorcraft manual transmission fluid" for this transmission. Similar to Redline MTL I would think. Too bad they waited so long to make the change. I wonder how many millions of other transmission failed like mine did?
Originally Posted By: Bluestream
Originally Posted By: 01rangerxl
The M5OD has always used ATF as the fluid, back to its introduction in 1987. Gear oil will destroy these transmissions...plenty of quick lubes have made that mistake.
A lot of people use some sort of MTF in them and they seem to do fine with that, but they also do fine with ATF. I have never heard of an M5OD filled with ATF failing...not unless it leaked most of it out of the shift rail plugs.
I had a Ford Explorer with the M5OD that failed with ATF, and cost me $1900 to rebuild. That's how I found this site back in 2003. There must be well over 100 threads on this very topic of ATF use in the M5od. Most support a fluid with real protection over ATF which is designed for AUTOMATIC transmission, not manuals.
What ATF was in it and what exactly failed? Was it full with no leaks? Shift rail plugs can leak without dripping to the ground and still cause enough fluid loss to kill the trans.
Millions of M5ODs operate on ATF, often the factory fill, with no issues.
I was towing a heavy boat with my 91 Ford Explorer when the transmission bearings failed. FWIW Mazda in other parts of the world does not use ATF in the M05D. Only in NA where the cranky consumer can't tolerate a few stiff shifts when the gear oil is cold.
Ford no longer recommends AFT for this unit, they now make a special "Motorcraft manual transmission fluid" for this transmission. Similar to Redline MTL I would think. Too bad they waited so long to make the change. I wonder how many millions of other transmission failed like mine did?
Originally Posted By: Bluestream
Ford no longer recommends AFT for this unit, they now make a special "Motorcraft manual transmission fluid" for this transmission. Similar to Redline MTL I would think. Too bad they waited so long to make the change. I wonder how many millions of other transmission failed like mine did?
Not sure where you got your info, but its wrong. Ford only recommends Mercon and now Mercon V for the M5OD. The Full Syntheric Manual Transmission Fluid was spec'd for that trans.
http://fcsdchemicalsandlubricants.com/main/quickref.asp
Notice the very limited applications for the Manual Trans Fluid.
Ford no longer recommends AFT for this unit, they now make a special "Motorcraft manual transmission fluid" for this transmission. Similar to Redline MTL I would think. Too bad they waited so long to make the change. I wonder how many millions of other transmission failed like mine did?
Not sure where you got your info, but its wrong. Ford only recommends Mercon and now Mercon V for the M5OD. The Full Syntheric Manual Transmission Fluid was spec'd for that trans.
http://fcsdchemicalsandlubricants.com/main/quickref.asp
Notice the very limited applications for the Manual Trans Fluid.
Originally Posted By: Bluestream
Ford no longer recommends AFT for this unit, they now make a special "Motorcraft manual transmission fluid" for this transmission. Similar to Redline MTL I would think. Too bad they waited so long to make the change. I wonder how many millions of other transmission failed like mine did?
Like bd said, not the case. ATF was used until the end of production, and I doubt Ford would introduce a new fluid for a transmission they knew was going out of production for years in advance.
I don't think millions of M5ODs failed due to ATF either. If that was the case, beat to [censored] Rangers wouldn't be driving all over the place, which they are. I see many older Rangers a day, and one quick glance at these trucks will tell you the owners are NOT putting specialty oils in the transmissions.
I think your failure was a fluke. Maybe caused by incorrect fluid, low fluid, or maybe a manufacturing defect. How many miles? Were you the original owner? Any chance a quick lube dumped gear oil in it because "it's a manual?"
Also, the M5OD is used pretty much exclusively in the Americas except for export Explorers. It was designed for the Ranger/B-Series/Explorer/Navajo/F-Series/Bronco. AFAIK, ATF is the only fluid that has ever been manufacturer specified for this trans.
Ford no longer recommends AFT for this unit, they now make a special "Motorcraft manual transmission fluid" for this transmission. Similar to Redline MTL I would think. Too bad they waited so long to make the change. I wonder how many millions of other transmission failed like mine did?
Like bd said, not the case. ATF was used until the end of production, and I doubt Ford would introduce a new fluid for a transmission they knew was going out of production for years in advance.
I don't think millions of M5ODs failed due to ATF either. If that was the case, beat to [censored] Rangers wouldn't be driving all over the place, which they are. I see many older Rangers a day, and one quick glance at these trucks will tell you the owners are NOT putting specialty oils in the transmissions.
I think your failure was a fluke. Maybe caused by incorrect fluid, low fluid, or maybe a manufacturing defect. How many miles? Were you the original owner? Any chance a quick lube dumped gear oil in it because "it's a manual?"
Also, the M5OD is used pretty much exclusively in the Americas except for export Explorers. It was designed for the Ranger/B-Series/Explorer/Navajo/F-Series/Bronco. AFAIK, ATF is the only fluid that has ever been manufacturer specified for this trans.
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