Ford layoffs

[SC Maintenance]

You would think, but on the flip side HyunKIA is still selling cars like hot cakes despite years of self-grenading 4 cyl engines. This is certainly no secret to anyone who isn't living under a rock.

H/K makes good looking cars for cheap. I honestly still look at them and wish. I almost bought one in 2019 - knowing I was taking my chances. Most people put 13.5K per year and they have a 100K mile warranty. Most people can get 7 or 8 years out of them under warranty, even if it is a little trouble.

Ford wants to sell $60K pickups and $75K mach e's. That market is limited.

Having said that, to quote a movie, to win in this business you have to be smarter, faster, or cheat. Maybe Ford decided it was easiest to be first shedding costs before the implosion.

 

[Fla]

You would think, but on the flip side HyunKIA is still selling cars like hot cakes despite years of self-grenading 4 cyl engines. This is certainly no secret to anyone who isn't living under a rock.

I think that Hyundai will also be becoming a victim on it's own success in the very near future. The first Hyundais in this country were inexpensive reliable cars with good dealer support. Now, not so much. On any of those. The dealers price them like they were Lexus and the STEALERSHIPS are now continually Robbing their customers when they try to have their cars repaired. And the latest fiasco, the NO security system, SHOULD cost them billions in compensation to their customers and the insurance companies. My family has owned five of them but after the last couple of dealer experiences, we'll be buying elsewhere in the future.

We were in the local Stealership for several hours a few weeks ago and there were NO customers in it. But it was FULL of people trying (without much luck) to get their cars repaired. Many of them, including us, were EXTREMELY angry!

I don't know if this is the result of Corporate problems or dealer problems and i don't really care, but I won't be buying another one.

 

[PF52]

There is already one guy saying the Maverick design is a failure and that you can’t sell a small truck and that nobody wants a truck that can’t tow 25,000lbs and that nobody can profitably sell a mid size truck.

The Ford Maverick Is A Colossal Failure

But it’s not for all the reasons you might be thinking. The post The Ford Maverick Is A Colossal Failure appeared first on The Auto Wire.

autos.yahoo.com

That article reads exactly like that old axim "no one goes there any more because it's too crowded".

 

[zzyzzx]

What have all those engineers and designers been doing these past several years since Ford dropped all their cars?

Working on trucks and SUV's.

 

[thastinger]

This 100x over. Ford has had persistent problems with the sun roofs, back windows, blown heads, two piece park plugs that destroyed engines, bad inter-cooler designs that destroyed engines, and other areas in the F-150s over the last 20 years and Ford has always denied any responsibility. But these were clearly design and/or manufacturing issues. But now the former Ford owners are looking for new vehicles and they won't even consider a Ford. The chickens are now coming home to roost at Ford.

ALL of the American car companies have a culture of building lousy designs with non-existent quality control and then dumping their products on consumers and then expecting them to pay thousands of dollars to Stealerships in an effort to fix problems that should have never occurred.

IDK about that. My 98 F150 4x4 Lariat has never had any mechanical problems that aren't normal wear items (ball joints, bushings etc). Never chucked a plug, transmission still good etc.

They have priced me out of ever buying another new one though and I wouldn't anyway with all the turbos and DI engines these days.

 

[SC Maintenance]

I think that Hyundai will also be becoming a victim on it's own success in the very near future. The first Hyundais in this country were inexpensive reliable cars with good dealer support. Now, not so much. On any of those. The dealers price them like they were Lexus and the STEALERSHIPS are now continually Robbing their customers when they try to have their cars repaired. And the latest fiasco, the NO security system, SHOULD cost them billions in compensation to their customers and the insurance companies. My family has owned five of them but after the last couple of dealer experiences, we'll be buying elsewhere in the future.

We were in the local Stealership for several hours a few weeks ago and there were NO customers in it. But it was FULL of people trying (without much luck) to get their cars repaired. Many of them, including us, were EXTREMELY angry!

I don't know if this is the result of Corporate problems or dealer problems and i don't really care, but I won't be buying another one.

Trust me when I tell you that they have not cornered the market on crappy dealers. Not by a long shot. Who likes there dealer?

Sales are up YTD. https://www.goodcarbadcar.net/hyundai-kia-group-us-sales-figures/

 

[Rmay635703]

That article reads exactly like that old axim "no one goes there any more because it's too crowded".

I’m waiting for Ford to reference that article and state that sales numbers did not meet projections so the truck is discontinued.

That would be a very GM like thing to do.

You would think with the internet that type of tripe wouldn’t happen but I continue to be surprised

 

[Cujet]

“I suggest hiring the most competent people possible, produce a competitively priced, desirable, quality product and avoid making poor business decisions.”

Cujet,

With all due respect I believe most businesses start out with those goals in mind. And hey, it looks really trendy when printed, framed, and placed on numerous walls in the corporate headquarters under the title “Mission Statement “ or worse yet, “Core Values.”

Unfortunately, it always seems to be the actual execution that gets in the way of achieving those goals.

Many businesses do start out with a properly aligned set of goals. However, if that business suddenly insists on waving the flag of idiocy, anyone with a near triple digit IQ would correctly expect customers to migrate to a competitor waving the flag of competence.

It is not rocket science, we have run this experiment a few times before, and the outcome is solidly understood.

This is not 'hindsight 20-20', this is well understood. Inferior quality products or services lead to dissatisfied customers, resulting in lost revenue and decreased customer loyalty.

 

[macarose]

They all want to be Tesla.

 

[Fla]

H/K makes good looking cars for cheap. I honestly still look at them and wish. I almost bought one in 2019 - knowing I was taking my chances. Most people put 13.5K per year and they have a 100K mile warranty.

The 100,000 mile warranty is ONLY if you purchase the OPTIONAL 3RD party warranty. And it's not worth the paper that it's written on. ASK ME how I know!

Mine is still at only about 44,000 miles and about 6 1/2 years old and the Winter Park, Florida Hollar Hyundai Stealership is already jerking us around. Over the last 2 1/2 years they have refused to make even minor repairs and are claimed that EVERYTHING is a "maintenance item" and that it's not covered under either of the two warranties on the car. "Things" including the plastic cover that goes over the push button switch under the tailgate that you have to push to open the trunk.

I will add that I have a 2009 built F-150 with the widely hated 5.4 engine and it has been less troublesome, even at this age and with well over 120,000 miles, than the 2016/2017 top of the line Sonata that we bought.

 

[Fla]

Many businesses do start out with a properly aligned set of goals. However, if that business suddenly insists on waving the flag of idiocy, anyone with a near triple digit IQ would correctly expect customers to migrate to a competitor waving the flag of competence.

It is not rocket science, we have run this experiment a few times before, and the outcome is solidly understood.

This is not 'hindsight 20-20', this is well understood. Inferior quality products or services lead to dissatisfied customers, resulting in lost revenue and decreased customer loyalty.

What A LOT of companies still can't seem to figure out is the fact that this isn't the 1950s any more, and today the news about "inferior" products can literally spread over night and to hundreds of thousands of other potential buyers.

It used to be that when you had a serious flaw in a vehicle that you might think that you're the only one or one of a few. But today when you can go on a forum and see that HUNDREDS of other's are all having the same identical issue, you know that that it is a flaw in the vehicle. And when you see the same flaw year, after year, after year in the same models then you know that the manufacturer doesn't care and that slogans like "Quality is Job One" is nothing but a marketing pitch.

 

[SC Maintenance]

The 100,000 mile warranty is ONLY if you purchase the OPTIONAL 3RD party warranty. And it's not worth the paper that it's written on. ASK ME how I know!

Mine is still at only about 44,000 miles and about 6 1/2 years old and the Winter Park, Florida Hollar Hyundai Stealership is already jerking us around. Over the last 2 1/2 years they have refused to make even minor repairs and are claimed that EVERYTHING is a "maintenance item" and that it's not covered under either of the two warranties on the car. "Things" including the plastic cover that goes over the push button switch under the tailgate that you have to push to open the trunk.

I will add that I have a 2009 built F-150 with the widely hated 5.4 engine and it has been less troublesome, even at this age and with well over 120,000 miles, than the 2016/2017 top of the line Sonata that we bought.

Sounds like you need to find a different dealer, or elevate it to whatever dispute process Hyundai has. What is and isn't covered should be clearly covered in the manual.

I have not owned a Hyundai or Kia, but I can assure you my Toyota dealer doesn't care for warranty work either, and are somewhat incompetent.

I will see your 2009 F-150 and raise you a 2008 Nissan Xterra with 390,000 miles, owned since new. And the Nissan dealers suck also.

 

[IveBeenRued]

Ford lost my new vehicle business after they screwed me on warranty repairs. After the second large, multi day repair, I got a letter in the mail from Ford Corporate stating that “The repairs performed on your vehicle exceed the underwriting limits of your factory 3Y/36K warranty. As such, your vehicle is now considered to be out of warranty.” It was one friggen year old with 11K miles!

 

[Fla]

Sounds like you need to find a different dealer, or elevate it to whatever dispute process Hyundai has. What is and isn't covered should be clearly covered in the manual.

I have not owned a Hyundai or Kia, but I can assure you my Toyota dealer doesn't care for warranty work either, and are somewhat incompetent.

I will see your 2009 F-150 and raise you a 2008 Nissan Xterra with 390,000 miles, owned since new. And the Nissan dealers suck also.

We elevated it on the same day to both the national Hyundai customer service folks and to the manager of the service department and to several of the top managers in the Stealership and we've had NO response from any of them. Absolutely zero response. We sat in the show room for over two hours waiting for the manager of the service department to come out and talk to us but he was a no show. That was AFTER we had called before we went down there and made an appointment to talk to him. We finally grabbed one of the sales guys and he talked to someone and got all of the added on "diagnostic fees" (almost $300 worth) taken off. (Reminder this car was and still is, under warranty!) But then the service writer started jerking us around some more and told us that our car wouldn't be "ready" for several more hours. I asked why, since they hadn't done any work on it up to that point. But I never got an answer and I was TOLD to leave the service writer area. At that point, I walked outside of the building and started talking to other customers there and when I did that, our car suddenly appeared. This is about five minutes after I was told that it would take hours to get it ready!

The nearest other Hyundai dealership is about 60 miles away and from everything that I've heard, their reputation is even worse than this dealer's! We have used this dealer for service in the past and we have bought two new Hyundais from them. But something has changed and they've become absolutely predatory in the way that their service department is run. They're now charging $235 per hour for labor and that's the highest rate that I personally know of in this area.

To to add some more details, on the way home we stopped at a local tire store that we've used for years and that we trust, and asked them to check several of the items that the Stealership said HAD TO BE DONE IMMEDIATELY OR WE WOULD ALL DIE! They found nothing wrong with the brakes, the tires, the shocks and the other things that the stealership said HAD TO BE fixed. The mechanics in the tire store literally laughed when we told them of some of the other "services" that the Stealership said NEEDED to be done!

 

[97prizm]

This 100x over. Ford has had persistent problems with the sun roofs, back windows, blown heads, two piece park plugs that destroyed engines, bad inter-cooler designs that destroyed engines, and other areas in the F-150s over the last 20 years and Ford has always denied any responsibility. But these were clearly design and/or manufacturing issues. But now the former Ford owners are looking for new vehicles and they won't even consider a Ford. The chickens are now coming home to roost at Ford.

ALL of the American car companies have a culture of building lousy designs with non-existent quality control and then dumping their products on consumers and then expecting them to pay thousands of dollars to Stealerships in an effort to fix problems that should have never occurred.

Just like Tesla with their $900 per door handle to replace repeatedly, bumpers that fall off, model s that set owners garages on fire when plugged in, multiple model Y's that the steering wheel has fallen off while driving ( Tesla claims it wasn't a defect). Tesla is no better than the big three yet have a quack at the top and a cult that deems their products can do no wrong.

 

[WylieCoyote]

Ford lost my new vehicle business after they screwed me on warranty repairs. After the second large, multi day repair, I got a letter in the mail from Ford Corporate stating that “The repairs performed on your vehicle exceed the underwriting limits of your factory 3Y/36K warranty. As such, your vehicle is now considered to be out of warranty.” It was one friggen year old with 11K miles!

I'd have looked into your state's lemon law, or suing Ford to buy the POS back. Nobody sends me out into the desert on a one-year-old car without me making their legal department's life miserable.

 

[Cujet]

Just like Tesla with their $900 per door handle to replace repeatedly, bumpers that fall off, [etc] fires [etc]

Yes but Tesla owners understand the company is a newcomer, and willingly tolerate flaws, sometimes major flaws. They do this so they can enjoy the benefits of driving the finest EV's available. But even I, a guy who cannot use an EV in any practical way, understand that Tesla constantly improves and refines the product. As much as I'd like to say a Model 3 is the same as when it was introduced, it's not.

 

[Fla]

Ford lost my new vehicle business after they screwed me on warranty repairs. After the second large, multi day repair, I got a letter in the mail from Ford Corporate stating that “The repairs performed on your vehicle exceed the underwriting limits of your factory 3Y/36K warranty. As such, your vehicle is now considered to be out of warranty.” It was one friggen year old with 11K miles!

WTH ? I've never heard of that. That's sort of the point of having a warranty isn't it?

One guy that used to be on a Ford F150 forum that I was on, had his Eco-Bust engine replaced three times under warranty due to the water ingestion problems that Ford had with those. He showed the receipts from Ford and I think each time they valued the replacement in excess of $18,000. That was 2012 or so.

If I had been you, I would have taken that to small claims court and asked the court to ORDER Ford to honor their warranty or to refund ALL of purchase price.

 

[Dave Hess]

Slowing economy, auto industry in trouble, we may see more and more of this from other manufacturers.

Yep, folks realize they really don’t need a $75,000 pickup truck.

 

[Dave Hess]

If Ford reduces their engineering staff by 25% that is a step in the right direction. BTW, my son's 2020 Explorer Platinum Edition is back at the Ford shop for repairs. This time for a complete sunroof replacement. It leaks and flooded the interior. Ford wanted $2700 to fix it (needs moonroof replaced) Ford agreed to split the cost with him because he bought the optional extended warranty when he purchased the vehicle new.

What happened to 'Quality is job one'?

I remember you posted about your son’s leaking sunroof.

Very sad Ford would not replace for free and try to keep a future customer.