I use Mobil 1 ATF in my 07 Fusion with very good results. I realize M1 does not carry the FNR-5 spec at this time, but when I first started using M1 in the Fusion trans it did. My trans up-shifts and downshifts very good. Pleased with the performance.
Ford FNR5 Fluid
- Thread starter dmhudson91
- Start date
- Status
Reading this thread with great interest as I have two Mazda's that require M-V/FNR5 fluids.
I dont trust the Maxlife recommendations for the only reason that so many confuse the Mercon V spec with the Mazda M-V spec. I have been on enough Mazda forums to see people using Maxlife or even Mercon V without problems, as in "I use it and it works fine", however "its working fine" and "its causing problems that simply havent gotten bad enough yet to notice" are eerily similar in real life and I dont know if I want to risk a $2000 transmission to save $5-$6 a quart in fluids.
I have yet to see Castrol, Valvoline, Mobil, or any other big name fluid carry the Mazda/Ford spec recently, at least not printed on the bottles. I considered using Mobil 1 ATF as it used to carry the FNR5/M-V spec (although it does not anymore as Tig mentioned) but when you compare the cost of Mobil 1 ATF versus simply buying the factory fluids from the local dealer, the cost is almost a total wash, its basically the same, at least at the dealers around me. My local Ford dealer has FNR5 for $9.50/quart and Mazda wants $11.50 for M-V.
I'll wait for a few more years of anecdotal forum postings about people using this or that ATF's before I bite the bullet and use anything other than FNR5/MV fluids from the local dealers.
What confounds me is that the trans in my Mazda2 is the same trans used in the Ford Fiesta, yet the Mazda requires Mazda M-V, while the Ford applications it specifies Mercon LV, which would lead one to believe that LV and M-V/FNR5 may have some interchangeability to it. But then why would Ford have two separate specs (FNR5 and Mercon LV) if they were interchangeable? While the specs themselves arent interchangeable, clearly in certain applications, there is overlap as far as what can be used in what. The only parts difference I have found between the two transmissions is the side cover plate and a pressed in bushing, the Mazda plate uses an aluminum bushing and the Ford uses a steel bushing. Is this enough to use two different fluid specs? Maybe it is, who knows.
This nonsense in the last 10-15 years with proprietary coolants and ATF's has gotten really annoying.
I dont trust the Maxlife recommendations for the only reason that so many confuse the Mercon V spec with the Mazda M-V spec. I have been on enough Mazda forums to see people using Maxlife or even Mercon V without problems, as in "I use it and it works fine", however "its working fine" and "its causing problems that simply havent gotten bad enough yet to notice" are eerily similar in real life and I dont know if I want to risk a $2000 transmission to save $5-$6 a quart in fluids.
I have yet to see Castrol, Valvoline, Mobil, or any other big name fluid carry the Mazda/Ford spec recently, at least not printed on the bottles. I considered using Mobil 1 ATF as it used to carry the FNR5/M-V spec (although it does not anymore as Tig mentioned) but when you compare the cost of Mobil 1 ATF versus simply buying the factory fluids from the local dealer, the cost is almost a total wash, its basically the same, at least at the dealers around me. My local Ford dealer has FNR5 for $9.50/quart and Mazda wants $11.50 for M-V.
I'll wait for a few more years of anecdotal forum postings about people using this or that ATF's before I bite the bullet and use anything other than FNR5/MV fluids from the local dealers.
What confounds me is that the trans in my Mazda2 is the same trans used in the Ford Fiesta, yet the Mazda requires Mazda M-V, while the Ford applications it specifies Mercon LV, which would lead one to believe that LV and M-V/FNR5 may have some interchangeability to it. But then why would Ford have two separate specs (FNR5 and Mercon LV) if they were interchangeable? While the specs themselves arent interchangeable, clearly in certain applications, there is overlap as far as what can be used in what. The only parts difference I have found between the two transmissions is the side cover plate and a pressed in bushing, the Mazda plate uses an aluminum bushing and the Ford uses a steel bushing. Is this enough to use two different fluid specs? Maybe it is, who knows.
This nonsense in the last 10-15 years with proprietary coolants and ATF's has gotten really annoying.
Originally Posted By: quint
Reading this thread with great interest as I have two Mazda's that require M-V/FNR5 fluids.
I dont trust the Maxlife recommendations for the only reason that so many confuse the Mercon V spec with the Mazda M-V spec. I have been on enough Mazda forums to see people using Maxlife or even Mercon V without problems, as in "I use it and it works fine", however "its working fine" and "its causing problems that simply havent gotten bad enough yet to notice" are eerily similar in real life and I dont know if I want to risk a $2000 transmission to save $5-$6 a quart in fluids.
I have yet to see Castrol, Valvoline, Mobil, or any other big name fluid carry the Mazda/Ford spec recently, at least not printed on the bottles. I considered using Mobil 1 ATF as it used to carry the FNR5/M-V spec (although it does not anymore as Tig mentioned) but when you compare the cost of Mobil 1 ATF versus simply buying the factory fluids from the local dealer, the cost is almost a total wash, its basically the same, at least at the dealers around me. My local Ford dealer has FNR5 for $9.50/quart and Mazda wants $11.50 for M-V.
I'll wait for a few more years of anecdotal forum postings about people using this or that ATF's before I bite the bullet and use anything other than FNR5/MV fluids from the local dealers.
What confounds me is that the trans in my Mazda2 is the same trans used in the Ford Fiesta, yet the Mazda requires Mazda M-V, while the Ford applications it specifies Mercon LV, which would lead one to believe that LV and M-V/FNR5 may have some interchangeability to it. But then why would Ford have two separate specs (FNR5 and Mercon LV) if they were interchangeable? While the specs themselves arent interchangeable, clearly in certain applications, there is overlap as far as what can be used in what. The only parts difference I have found between the two transmissions is the side cover plate and a pressed in bushing, the Mazda plate uses an aluminum bushing and the Ford uses a steel bushing. Is this enough to use two different fluid specs? Maybe it is, who knows.
This nonsense in the last 10-15 years with proprietary coolants and ATF's has gotten really annoying.
Thanks for the post. I'll just mention that Castrol does specify M-V in its PDS for Transmax Import fluid. Also, while comparable Valvoline ATF's PDS specifically says the list in the PDF file is not complete, some other documents from Valvoline do mention M-V. Now, how a multi-vehicle fluid can cover M-V, Mercon V, Dexron III, SP-III, etc all at once is still a mystery to me. It might be all very simple but I wonder if anyone knows of a document on that topic or a thread...
Reading this thread with great interest as I have two Mazda's that require M-V/FNR5 fluids.
I dont trust the Maxlife recommendations for the only reason that so many confuse the Mercon V spec with the Mazda M-V spec. I have been on enough Mazda forums to see people using Maxlife or even Mercon V without problems, as in "I use it and it works fine", however "its working fine" and "its causing problems that simply havent gotten bad enough yet to notice" are eerily similar in real life and I dont know if I want to risk a $2000 transmission to save $5-$6 a quart in fluids.
I have yet to see Castrol, Valvoline, Mobil, or any other big name fluid carry the Mazda/Ford spec recently, at least not printed on the bottles. I considered using Mobil 1 ATF as it used to carry the FNR5/M-V spec (although it does not anymore as Tig mentioned) but when you compare the cost of Mobil 1 ATF versus simply buying the factory fluids from the local dealer, the cost is almost a total wash, its basically the same, at least at the dealers around me. My local Ford dealer has FNR5 for $9.50/quart and Mazda wants $11.50 for M-V.
I'll wait for a few more years of anecdotal forum postings about people using this or that ATF's before I bite the bullet and use anything other than FNR5/MV fluids from the local dealers.
What confounds me is that the trans in my Mazda2 is the same trans used in the Ford Fiesta, yet the Mazda requires Mazda M-V, while the Ford applications it specifies Mercon LV, which would lead one to believe that LV and M-V/FNR5 may have some interchangeability to it. But then why would Ford have two separate specs (FNR5 and Mercon LV) if they were interchangeable? While the specs themselves arent interchangeable, clearly in certain applications, there is overlap as far as what can be used in what. The only parts difference I have found between the two transmissions is the side cover plate and a pressed in bushing, the Mazda plate uses an aluminum bushing and the Ford uses a steel bushing. Is this enough to use two different fluid specs? Maybe it is, who knows.
This nonsense in the last 10-15 years with proprietary coolants and ATF's has gotten really annoying.
Thanks for the post. I'll just mention that Castrol does specify M-V in its PDS for Transmax Import fluid. Also, while comparable Valvoline ATF's PDS specifically says the list in the PDF file is not complete, some other documents from Valvoline do mention M-V. Now, how a multi-vehicle fluid can cover M-V, Mercon V, Dexron III, SP-III, etc all at once is still a mystery to me. It might be all very simple but I wonder if anyone knows of a document on that topic or a thread...
Originally Posted By: quint
What confounds me is that the trans in my Mazda2 is the same trans used in the Ford Fiesta, yet the Mazda requires Mazda M-V, while the Ford applications it specifies Mercon LV, which would lead one to believe that LV and M-V/FNR5 may have some interchangeability to it.
This is not correct. Mazda does not use a DCT like the Fiesta. Mazda still uses torque converter based ATXs. The Fiesta DCT uses Motorcraft XT-11-QDC (DCT fluid, not Mercon LV).
What confounds me is that the trans in my Mazda2 is the same trans used in the Ford Fiesta, yet the Mazda requires Mazda M-V, while the Ford applications it specifies Mercon LV, which would lead one to believe that LV and M-V/FNR5 may have some interchangeability to it.
This is not correct. Mazda does not use a DCT like the Fiesta. Mazda still uses torque converter based ATXs. The Fiesta DCT uses Motorcraft XT-11-QDC (DCT fluid, not Mercon LV).
I probably have my models messed up, and should be thinking the Ford Focus. Either way, the Mazda2 transmission FN4A-EL, which is the twin to the Ford 4F27E, requires M-V, while the Ford specifies LV (per this: https://www.fcsdchemicalsandlubricants.com/main/quickref/atf.pdf ). Being that M-V and FNR5 are the same fluid, you'd think Ford would specify the FNR5 for the 4F27E trans, but instead specs LV. Same transmission, different fluid specs. I stand by my main point, all of these proprietary ATFs.. I hate it.
The Focus used the horrid DPS6 DCT box just like the Fiesta. The Fusion had the FNR5 or the AWF21 depending on engine up until the 6F35/50 took over.
I was hoping you'd jump back in here. Given your job and access to this Ford/Mazda business I figured you'd know better than anyone.
I generally hate Wikipedia, but here it says the 4F27E was used in the Focus (at least at one point, with whatever engine): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_4F27E_transmission
ATRA also shows the Focus with this transmission ( http://www.atraonline.com/gears/2004/2004-05/2004_5_14.pdf ) but does not specify the engine or model years.
Either way, Ford says use LV, Mazda says use M-V/FNR5, while Ford says only use FNR5 in the FNR5. Unless I am losing my mind, which is entirely possibly.
I generally hate Wikipedia, but here it says the 4F27E was used in the Focus (at least at one point, with whatever engine): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_4F27E_transmission
ATRA also shows the Focus with this transmission ( http://www.atraonline.com/gears/2004/2004-05/2004_5_14.pdf ) but does not specify the engine or model years.
Either way, Ford says use LV, Mazda says use M-V/FNR5, while Ford says only use FNR5 in the FNR5. Unless I am losing my mind, which is entirely possibly.
Originally Posted By: quint
I was hoping you'd jump back in here. Given your job and access to this Ford/Mazda business I figured you'd know better than anyone.
I generally hate Wikipedia, but here it says the 4F27E was used in the Focus (at least at one point, with whatever engine): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_4F27E_transmission
ATRA also shows the Focus with this transmission ( http://www.atraonline.com/gears/2004/2004-05/2004_5_14.pdf ) but does not specify the engine or model years.
Either way, Ford says use LV, Mazda says use M-V/FNR5, while Ford says only use FNR5 in the FNR5. Unless I am losing my mind, which is entirely possibly.
Just in case you were a bit confused, FNR5 is a transmission, it isn't a spec. It is the Mazda designed/made 5spd ATX released in 2006 model year, i believe. Motorcraft does put FNR5 on the label but the spec fluid is Mazda M-5. Motorcraft part number is XT-9-QMM5. They do not use Mercon LV in the FNR5 transmission.
I was hoping you'd jump back in here. Given your job and access to this Ford/Mazda business I figured you'd know better than anyone.
I generally hate Wikipedia, but here it says the 4F27E was used in the Focus (at least at one point, with whatever engine): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_4F27E_transmission
ATRA also shows the Focus with this transmission ( http://www.atraonline.com/gears/2004/2004-05/2004_5_14.pdf ) but does not specify the engine or model years.
Either way, Ford says use LV, Mazda says use M-V/FNR5, while Ford says only use FNR5 in the FNR5. Unless I am losing my mind, which is entirely possibly.
Just in case you were a bit confused, FNR5 is a transmission, it isn't a spec. It is the Mazda designed/made 5spd ATX released in 2006 model year, i believe. Motorcraft does put FNR5 on the label but the spec fluid is Mazda M-5. Motorcraft part number is XT-9-QMM5. They do not use Mercon LV in the FNR5 transmission.
Yes, you are correct, when talking about this I do tend to use the FNR5 term as the fluid spec when its not. The FNR5 on the label screws me up.
For anyone whose head isn't spinning from all this, I was questioning why Mazda specs the M-5 fluid in their version of the 4F27E (Mazda FN4A-EL), but Ford says use L-V in their models.
I questioned this in my own quest to find compatible/interchangeable fluids for my Mazda2 that specs the M-5 fluid. Which is what my Mazda3 uses also.
So, Ford and Mazda share the FNR5/FS5A-EL transmission and both spec M-5 fluid.
Yet Ford and Mazda both also share the 4F27E/FN4A-EL transmission yet each specs a different fluid. Why? Who knows.
For anyone whose head isn't spinning from all this, I was questioning why Mazda specs the M-5 fluid in their version of the 4F27E (Mazda FN4A-EL), but Ford says use L-V in their models.
I questioned this in my own quest to find compatible/interchangeable fluids for my Mazda2 that specs the M-5 fluid. Which is what my Mazda3 uses also.
So, Ford and Mazda share the FNR5/FS5A-EL transmission and both spec M-5 fluid.
Yet Ford and Mazda both also share the 4F27E/FN4A-EL transmission yet each specs a different fluid. Why? Who knows.
And people come on here and complain when a parts guy has to look fluids up. This is the kind of thing we deal with all the time.
If the manual calls for FNR5 use fnr 5. I had to get a bunch of it from a ford dealer recently. Spoke with a parts guy and a Mechanic. Both said that there are problems and transmission does not "behave" well if you use Mercon V instead of FNR5.
My transmission fluid was pretty well cooked after 47k miles on it.
There is about 12 quarts in the transmission, you can drain 2-3 quarts from the transmission pan, so just change drain it when you drain the oil.
At least on my mazda 6 there is a transmission drain bolt, dont know about the fusion.
My transmission fluid was pretty well cooked after 47k miles on it.
There is about 12 quarts in the transmission, you can drain 2-3 quarts from the transmission pan, so just change drain it when you drain the oil.
At least on my mazda 6 there is a transmission drain bolt, dont know about the fusion.
Originally Posted By: quint
Yes, you are correct, when talking about this I do tend to use the FNR5 term as the fluid spec when its not. The FNR5 on the label screws me up.
For anyone whose head isn't spinning from all this, I was questioning why Mazda specs the M-5 fluid in their version of the 4F27E (Mazda FN4A-EL), but Ford says use L-V in their models.
I questioned this in my own quest to find compatible/interchangeable fluids for my Mazda2 that specs the M-5 fluid. Which is what my Mazda3 uses also.
So, Ford and Mazda share the FNR5/FS5A-EL transmission and both spec M-5 fluid.
Yet Ford and Mazda both also share the 4F27E/FN4A-EL transmission yet each specs a different fluid. Why? Who knows.
I don't think Mazda has created a new ATF fluid spec in a decade. I think it is mainly just Mazda not getting around to it and feeling it is fine.
Yes, you are correct, when talking about this I do tend to use the FNR5 term as the fluid spec when its not. The FNR5 on the label screws me up.
For anyone whose head isn't spinning from all this, I was questioning why Mazda specs the M-5 fluid in their version of the 4F27E (Mazda FN4A-EL), but Ford says use L-V in their models.
I questioned this in my own quest to find compatible/interchangeable fluids for my Mazda2 that specs the M-5 fluid. Which is what my Mazda3 uses also.
So, Ford and Mazda share the FNR5/FS5A-EL transmission and both spec M-5 fluid.
Yet Ford and Mazda both also share the 4F27E/FN4A-EL transmission yet each specs a different fluid. Why? Who knows.
I don't think Mazda has created a new ATF fluid spec in a decade. I think it is mainly just Mazda not getting around to it and feeling it is fine.
I used Redline D4 in my 2007 Ford Fusion. I did two drain and fills, one at 30K and another at about 40K. The origonal fluid was dark at 30K. I had the car until a few months ago when a deer decided to commit suicide on my hood. The D4 smoothed out the first to second shift quite a bit. The fluid was still clear and pink with over 100K of use.
I've been researching this magic Mazda V / FNR fluid for years now and haven't had much luck finding OEM information other than MSDS sheets. Today I actually found a Tecnical Data Sheet and MSDS. Here's a link: http://www.finol.ie/lubricants-oils/automotive/gear-oil/mazda-original-oil-atf-m-v/
I've been researching this magic Mazda V / FNR fluid for years now and haven't had much luck finding OEM information other than MSDS sheets. Today I actually found a Tecnical Data Sheet and MSDS. Here's a link: http://www.finol.ie/lubricants-oils/automotive/gear-oil/mazda-original-oil-atf-m-v/
Originally Posted By: jbailey
I've been researching this magic Mazda V / FNR fluid for years now and haven't had much luck finding OEM information other than MSDS sheets. Today I actually found a Tecnical Data Sheet and MSDS. Here's a link: http://www.finol.ie/lubricants-oils/automotive/gear-oil/mazda-original-oil-atf-m-v/
Wow you deserve a prize! I was wondering about the specs to enable comparison to Maxlife & Castrol IMV.
Here is the direct pdf link:
http://www.finol.ie/uploads/downloads/Mazda_Original_Oil_ATF_M-V_Gear_Oil.pdf
I've been researching this magic Mazda V / FNR fluid for years now and haven't had much luck finding OEM information other than MSDS sheets. Today I actually found a Tecnical Data Sheet and MSDS. Here's a link: http://www.finol.ie/lubricants-oils/automotive/gear-oil/mazda-original-oil-atf-m-v/
Wow you deserve a prize! I was wondering about the specs to enable comparison to Maxlife & Castrol IMV.
Here is the direct pdf link:
http://www.finol.ie/uploads/downloads/Mazda_Original_Oil_ATF_M-V_Gear_Oil.pdf
Btw, yesterday I was racking my brain trying to remember a brand that actually sells OEM equivalent / approved M5.
And today I found it along with their data sheet. The brand is Beck Arnley:
http://www.maxmarketing.com/beckarnley/ATF_M5_Chemical_Product_Data_Sheet.pdf
And today I found it along with their data sheet. The brand is Beck Arnley:
http://www.maxmarketing.com/beckarnley/ATF_M5_Chemical_Product_Data_Sheet.pdf
FNR5 fluid is the same as Mazda M5 (not Mercon V) because that is a Mazda made transmission. My understanding is it is tan/yellow color unlike the typical red ATF. Mazda dealer here sells M5 for only $9.50 / qt.
I saw a used oil analysis on the M5 / FNR5 and it looks like it has very low metal count. There's a Total presentation that says this oil uses different friction for Mazda clutch pack, and it pass a compressor oil thermal breakdown test spec (JIS K 2514).
If you replace this with anything make sure you use the best synthetic available. If I remember right Maxlife doesn't support M5 on the back label (only M3 which is Mercon V if I remember right).
I saw a used oil analysis on the M5 / FNR5 and it looks like it has very low metal count. There's a Total presentation that says this oil uses different friction for Mazda clutch pack, and it pass a compressor oil thermal breakdown test spec (JIS K 2514).
If you replace this with anything make sure you use the best synthetic available. If I remember right Maxlife doesn't support M5 on the back label (only M3 which is Mercon V if I remember right).
Last edited:
I think it's pretty pathetic when a manufacturer builds a gearbox and then must develop a super-trick, super expensive lubricant just to keep that transmission or transaxle alive..If these parts are so sensitive, so prone to wear, so overloaded, why not just redesign the weak part and be done with it. But no, they formulate some snake-oil to keep the transmission alive until the warranty expires...In the oil department, the ATF section is now 20 feet long to accommodate all the different products!
- Status
Similar threads
