Ford escape roll over question
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I keep hearing the "ground clearance for snow" thing, and I have yet to encounter evidence for it on public roads. I drove my M3 in the worst snow the Greater Philadelphia Area saw last winter (quite intentionally), and ground clearance wasn't nearly an issue. Snow would pile up in the grille and I never even felt it. Ditto my previous car, which was a 2.3" lowered Nissan Maxima. An old coworker of mine had a modified E36 3-series that had about 4" of ground clearance, and he drove it year-round with no problems.
Where do you people drive that height actually makes a difference?
Where do you people drive that height actually makes a difference?
OVERKILL
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Originally Posted By: d00df00d
I keep hearing the "ground clearance for snow" thing, and I have yet to encounter evidence for it on public roads. I drove my M3 in the worst snow the Greater Philadelphia Area saw last winter (quite intentionally), and ground clearance wasn't nearly an issue. Snow would pile up in the grille and I never even felt it. Ditto my previous car, which was a 2.3" lowered Nissan Maxima. An old coworker of mine had a modified E36 3-series that had about 4" of ground clearance, and he drove it year-round with no problems.
Where do you people drive that height actually makes a difference?
Canada.
I keep hearing the "ground clearance for snow" thing, and I have yet to encounter evidence for it on public roads. I drove my M3 in the worst snow the Greater Philadelphia Area saw last winter (quite intentionally), and ground clearance wasn't nearly an issue. Snow would pile up in the grille and I never even felt it. Ditto my previous car, which was a 2.3" lowered Nissan Maxima. An old coworker of mine had a modified E36 3-series that had about 4" of ground clearance, and he drove it year-round with no problems.
Where do you people drive that height actually makes a difference?
Canada.
Originally Posted By: d00df00d
Where do you people drive that height actually makes a difference?
Within the city, I've only needed more ground clearance than a regular car provides once, to get out of an apartment parking lot the morning after a blizzard. Instead of ground clearance, I got myself out by shoveling for over an hour.
I did drive through a few deep snowdrifts during a blizzard with the '98 Pathfinder I once owned (off-road capability was necessary for work). I'm pretty sure the highway was technically closed. I probably could have made it through the drifts in my Mazda3 with a good run, but I don't know if I would have even wanted to try to make the trip in that. I wasn't concerned with getting stuck on 31" studded snow tires. Visibility ended up being the real concern anyway.
Where do you people drive that height actually makes a difference?
Within the city, I've only needed more ground clearance than a regular car provides once, to get out of an apartment parking lot the morning after a blizzard. Instead of ground clearance, I got myself out by shoveling for over an hour.
I did drive through a few deep snowdrifts during a blizzard with the '98 Pathfinder I once owned (off-road capability was necessary for work). I'm pretty sure the highway was technically closed. I probably could have made it through the drifts in my Mazda3 with a good run, but I don't know if I would have even wanted to try to make the trip in that. I wasn't concerned with getting stuck on 31" studded snow tires. Visibility ended up being the real concern anyway.
Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
Canada.
Could you be more specific?
I was born in Toronto and spent the first 13 years of my life in the Toronto metro area (I'm still a Canadian citizen). My parents had a '79 Malibu, an '86 Civic Wagovan, an '89 Taurus, and a '98 Escort, and they never got stuck either. Whenever we went back up to visit, my brother and I always noticed that everyone had plain-jane compact cars, sedans, and minivans, and we saw almost no SUVs on the roads in winter until the past 4 or 5 years or so.
Canada.
Could you be more specific?
I was born in Toronto and spent the first 13 years of my life in the Toronto metro area (I'm still a Canadian citizen). My parents had a '79 Malibu, an '86 Civic Wagovan, an '89 Taurus, and a '98 Escort, and they never got stuck either. Whenever we went back up to visit, my brother and I always noticed that everyone had plain-jane compact cars, sedans, and minivans, and we saw almost no SUVs on the roads in winter until the past 4 or 5 years or so.
rollover ???i have owned a number of suv's-72 bronco 4wd,78 scout 4wd,89 sidekick 4wd,01 tribute 2wd(escape clone). the only time i have ever came close to a rollover was off road gully running in the scout.the same scout i would sling sideways doing 90 degree (T turns) on gravel roads at 35-40 mph, never even hinted at rollover.wish i still had it.probably the best 4x4 mix of off road and pavement manners.
in other words IMO rollover is a negligible concern.
in other words IMO rollover is a negligible concern.
I think anyone with common sense who keeps physics in mind when piloting any SUV is not likely to experience a rollover. I can see it happening during an emergency stop / swerve maneuver if you overcook it, but if you roll over after a blowout, look to your driving skill first before blaming the SUV.
Slamming the brake and jerking the wheel isn't the proper procedure for dealing with a blowout. Unfortunately, that's how a lot of people here deal with any situation that arises.
Slamming the brake and jerking the wheel isn't the proper procedure for dealing with a blowout. Unfortunately, that's how a lot of people here deal with any situation that arises.
JHZR2
Staff member
+1
Higher centers of gravity do make rolling over more likely in some situations regardless of suspension tuning or stability control. If it had been Ford Taurus' that were blowing out the firestone tires at the same rate as the Exploder then we probably would have never heard about it. The Taurus is much less likely to roll, no one dies, and firestone recalls the tires quietly.
I know I'd rather be in the Taurus if I was sliding sideways at a high rate of speed into the center grass strip on an interstate. Of course the idea is never to get into that situation with any car but things happen...
I still bought an 03 Chevy tracker, it has the same rollover rating as a minivan due to GM/Suzuki aggresively tuning the suspension for understeer but I have no doubt if I go sideways into the ditch at 50+mph it's more likely to roll than a minivan.
I'm ok with that risk. Maybe not everyone is.
Ian
I know I'd rather be in the Taurus if I was sliding sideways at a high rate of speed into the center grass strip on an interstate. Of course the idea is never to get into that situation with any car but things happen...
I still bought an 03 Chevy tracker, it has the same rollover rating as a minivan due to GM/Suzuki aggresively tuning the suspension for understeer but I have no doubt if I go sideways into the ditch at 50+mph it's more likely to roll than a minivan.
I'm ok with that risk. Maybe not everyone is.
Ian
OVERKILL
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Originally Posted By: d00df00d
Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
Canada.
Could you be more specific?
I was born in Toronto and spent the first 13 years of my life in the Toronto metro area (I'm still a Canadian citizen). My parents had a '79 Malibu, an '86 Civic Wagovan, an '89 Taurus, and a '98 Escort, and they never got stuck either. Whenever we went back up to visit, my brother and I always noticed that everyone had plain-jane compact cars, sedans, and minivans, and we saw almost no SUVs on the roads in winter until the past 4 or 5 years or so.
Muskoka (Ontario), New Brunswick, Nova Scotia....etc.
Wherever there is a LOT of snow. My parents road sometimes takes days to be plowed. Dad has to get to work. Expedition + 4x4 and he gets to work.
My aunt has a Cavalier (she lives in rural Muskoka) and has been snowed in numerous times. She has had to wait days to get out.
I've driven Northern New Brunswick in my Explorer. I used to drive to school in 1ft of snow on numerous occasions. There are PARTS of Canada that get massive amounts of snow. The GTA is not one of those areas.
That's why the army had to come in when they had that huge snow storm and why New Brunswick had to send them 14 plows
Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
Canada.
Could you be more specific?
I was born in Toronto and spent the first 13 years of my life in the Toronto metro area (I'm still a Canadian citizen). My parents had a '79 Malibu, an '86 Civic Wagovan, an '89 Taurus, and a '98 Escort, and they never got stuck either. Whenever we went back up to visit, my brother and I always noticed that everyone had plain-jane compact cars, sedans, and minivans, and we saw almost no SUVs on the roads in winter until the past 4 or 5 years or so.
Muskoka (Ontario), New Brunswick, Nova Scotia....etc.
Wherever there is a LOT of snow. My parents road sometimes takes days to be plowed. Dad has to get to work. Expedition + 4x4 and he gets to work.
My aunt has a Cavalier (she lives in rural Muskoka) and has been snowed in numerous times. She has had to wait days to get out.
I've driven Northern New Brunswick in my Explorer. I used to drive to school in 1ft of snow on numerous occasions. There are PARTS of Canada that get massive amounts of snow. The GTA is not one of those areas.
That's why the army had to come in when they had that huge snow storm and why New Brunswick had to send them 14 plows
Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
In contrast to what I had on my '97, I was calling the above (perhaps erroneously?) an SFA.
Not quite. TTB is its own animal. It's more of a hybrid between a SFA and IFS. No other solid axle pivots or is split in half like TTB. Since each end can move independently of the other, it can't really be called a true SFA. What it has in common with SFA suspensions is that the differential moves with the suspension, rather than being fixed to the frame.
TTB was used through 1994. All 1995 model year Explorers have SLA independent front suspensions.
In contrast to what I had on my '97, I was calling the above (perhaps erroneously?) an SFA.
Not quite. TTB is its own animal. It's more of a hybrid between a SFA and IFS. No other solid axle pivots or is split in half like TTB. Since each end can move independently of the other, it can't really be called a true SFA. What it has in common with SFA suspensions is that the differential moves with the suspension, rather than being fixed to the frame.
TTB was used through 1994. All 1995 model year Explorers have SLA independent front suspensions.
OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
Originally Posted By: 01rangerxl
Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
In contrast to what I had on my '97, I was calling the above (perhaps erroneously?) an SFA.
Not quite. TTB is its own animal. It's more of a hybrid between a SFA and IFS. No other solid axle pivots or is split in half like TTB. Since each end can move independently of the other, it can't really be called a true SFA. What it has in common with SFA suspensions is that the differential moves with the suspension, rather than being fixed to the frame.
TTB was used through 1994. All 1995 model year Explorers have SLA independent front suspensions.
Makes sense. Definitely an odd setup. Is it stronger?
Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
In contrast to what I had on my '97, I was calling the above (perhaps erroneously?) an SFA.
Not quite. TTB is its own animal. It's more of a hybrid between a SFA and IFS. No other solid axle pivots or is split in half like TTB. Since each end can move independently of the other, it can't really be called a true SFA. What it has in common with SFA suspensions is that the differential moves with the suspension, rather than being fixed to the frame.
TTB was used through 1994. All 1995 model year Explorers have SLA independent front suspensions.
Makes sense. Definitely an odd setup. Is it stronger?
It is a pretty strong setup, and it's great for trucks used off road. It is very cheap to lift a TTB truck, and you can gets lots of travel with SFA durability. If I was going to build a real trail rig, my first choice would be a '91-'94 Explorer Sport.
IIRC, around 1989 (for Rangers) Ford started using a fairly stout D35 differential. All TTB Explorers have the D35 diff. IFS Explorers also use the D35 differential.
The downside to TTB is that it is hard to align properly, and it can eat tires if it's not aligned right. With a good alignment shop, it's not a problem.
IIRC, around 1989 (for Rangers) Ford started using a fairly stout D35 differential. All TTB Explorers have the D35 diff. IFS Explorers also use the D35 differential.
The downside to TTB is that it is hard to align properly, and it can eat tires if it's not aligned right. With a good alignment shop, it's not a problem.
OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
I had TIB on the front of my F-250, it was apparently exciting to align as well.
Originally Posted By: d00df00d
Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
Canada.
Could you be more specific?
I was born in Toronto and spent the first 13 years of my life in the Toronto metro area (I'm still a Canadian citizen). My parents had a '79 Malibu, an '86 Civic Wagovan, an '89 Taurus, and a '98 Escort, and they never got stuck either. Whenever we went back up to visit, my brother and I always noticed that everyone had plain-jane compact cars, sedans, and minivans, and we saw almost no SUVs on the roads in winter until the past 4 or 5 years or so.
Ground clearance can definitely be an issue when you get a big snow fall. I have seen numerous small lighweight cars with low ground clearance become stuck simply because the snow is up to the floorboards. Typically, this is on an unplowed road or parking lot. I have also had to help, push, or dig these cars out. I doubt you saw this in the GTA, the winter's there are pretty mild (yes, I did my time in TO) in comparision to Barrie, the Muskokas or any where in northern Ontario.
The GTA doesn't have a lot of trucks or SUV's, even though it has increased in recent years. Rural areas and northern areas have always had lots of trucks, SUV's and 4X4's. In my area(northern Ontario), trucks have always been very common. Even with the high fuel prices, truck sales in this area have not seen a significant decreased.
Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
Canada.
Could you be more specific?
I was born in Toronto and spent the first 13 years of my life in the Toronto metro area (I'm still a Canadian citizen). My parents had a '79 Malibu, an '86 Civic Wagovan, an '89 Taurus, and a '98 Escort, and they never got stuck either. Whenever we went back up to visit, my brother and I always noticed that everyone had plain-jane compact cars, sedans, and minivans, and we saw almost no SUVs on the roads in winter until the past 4 or 5 years or so.
Ground clearance can definitely be an issue when you get a big snow fall. I have seen numerous small lighweight cars with low ground clearance become stuck simply because the snow is up to the floorboards. Typically, this is on an unplowed road or parking lot. I have also had to help, push, or dig these cars out. I doubt you saw this in the GTA, the winter's there are pretty mild (yes, I did my time in TO) in comparision to Barrie, the Muskokas or any where in northern Ontario.
The GTA doesn't have a lot of trucks or SUV's, even though it has increased in recent years. Rural areas and northern areas have always had lots of trucks, SUV's and 4X4's. In my area(northern Ontario), trucks have always been very common. Even with the high fuel prices, truck sales in this area have not seen a significant decreased.
Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
Muskoka (Ontario), New Brunswick, Nova Scotia....etc.
Wherever there is a LOT of snow. My parents road sometimes takes days to be plowed. Dad has to get to work. Expedition + 4x4 and he gets to work.
Okay, that explains it.
In that case, let me assure you, 99% of the population of North America does not share that experience...
Muskoka (Ontario), New Brunswick, Nova Scotia....etc.
Wherever there is a LOT of snow. My parents road sometimes takes days to be plowed. Dad has to get to work. Expedition + 4x4 and he gets to work.
Okay, that explains it.
In that case, let me assure you, 99% of the population of North America does not share that experience...
Oddly enough the only times I've had my old Neon dragging the bottom badly on a public road was in Toronto just after 10-15cm of snow. They plowed 3 lanes of snow into the on ramps in several places but with snow tires and hefty boot on the throttle it pulled through. My car is pretty much the lowest thing on the road too, not that I've lowered it, just old springs...
Little fwd cars with narrow snow tires work pretty well in winter, usually I find that if I get stopped in deep snow I can reverse out and try again as the snows don't have the tendency to polish patches of ice under the tires.
Anyways I think if people knew how well any fwd car does with snow tires there would be a few less SUV's sold. And once your up to speed, snowtires trump any AWD/4x4 car or truck with 3 season tires for stopping, or avoiding an accident.
Ian
Little fwd cars with narrow snow tires work pretty well in winter, usually I find that if I get stopped in deep snow I can reverse out and try again as the snows don't have the tendency to polish patches of ice under the tires.
Anyways I think if people knew how well any fwd car does with snow tires there would be a few less SUV's sold. And once your up to speed, snowtires trump any AWD/4x4 car or truck with 3 season tires for stopping, or avoiding an accident.
Ian
The Twin I-Beam (2WD) suspension is still used on the Ford Econoline's. Super-tough for commercial vehicles driven by non-owners who bomb through potholes and bounce over curbs.
What does an Explorer Gen 1 front end have to do with "Escape roll-over"?
Like others have said, yes, an SUV will roll-over easier than an auto. I wouldn't consider an Escape "unsafe". I've take some pretty quick corners in my 07 and 08 Mariners, and have never felt uneasy. I have not had a blow-out while driving 75 mph though.
However, if your potential used Escape still has the OEM Continental Contitracs, I would replace them ASAP. They will make you feel "uneasy".
Like others have said, yes, an SUV will roll-over easier than an auto. I wouldn't consider an Escape "unsafe". I've take some pretty quick corners in my 07 and 08 Mariners, and have never felt uneasy. I have not had a blow-out while driving 75 mph though.
However, if your potential used Escape still has the OEM Continental Contitracs, I would replace them ASAP. They will make you feel "uneasy".
Originally Posted By: kkreit01
What does an Explorer Gen 1 front end have to do with "Escape roll-over"?
Free association of ideas....Ford Explorer roll-over debacle, (and they're both made by Ford)
What does an Explorer Gen 1 front end have to do with "Escape roll-over"?
Free association of ideas....Ford Explorer roll-over debacle, (and they're both made by Ford)
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