Ford 10R80 transmission trash can issues

[Exhaustgases]

So they have the trash can issues, and made an updated part to fix said issue. So just asking any of you transmission specialist how well that updated part is handling the problems now? Personally I don't see how hard anodized Al can compete with the hard sharp steel of the clutch disks? Just seems like a normal nowadays manufactures band aid fix.
I think, the biggest problems nowadays are caused by the material choices they make, and not just for transmissions.

 

[wwillson]

trash can issues

Can you explain the "Ford 10R80 transmission trash can issue" for those of us who don't know what it is?

 

[I<3oil]

Can you explain the "Ford 10R80 transmission trash can issue" for those of us who don't know what it is?

https://www.nationaltransmission.ca/transmission-failures-with-10r80-and-10r140-ford-gm/

While these transmissions are complex, our experienced technicians have identified three common internal failure points:

1. F Clutch Wear in the Outer Shell (“The Trash Can”)

Nicknamed the “trash can” for its shape, the outer shell of the transmission houses critical rotating components. One major issue we’ve seen is the F clutch wearing grooves into this shell. These grooves prevent the clutch from fully applying or releasing, leading to harsh or erratic shifts.

In severe cases, this wear can become so extreme that the shell actually splits in half: something we’ve unfortunately witnessed firsthand.

The Fix: Ford has released an updated hardened and anodized outer shell, which we now install as part of our rebuild process. This upgrade prevents future wear and has proven to be a long-term solution.

 

[clinebarger]

The Planetary Carrier that sits on top of the Shell beats down on the aluminum causing contact between rotating components as well.

These are pictures of a GM 10L80E that I built, Same rotating shell that Ford used, Installed a Anodized Ford Shell.

Don't know about it being a long term solution, But can't be worse than bare aluminum.

 

[ctechbob]

Edit: @clinebarger beat me to it by 30 seconds.


Old Part:

New Part:

Essentially about 80% of the actual 'transmission' parts are inside that shell. There's all kinds of stuff packed in there, and some of the clutches are keyed directly to the shell. Steel on aluminum is not great for wear and they're eating the shell in half.

This is not as severe as it gets, some shells have been cut completely in half.

 

[Cujet]

For the most part, late 2023 and all 2024 transmissions have the updated part.

 

[Exhaustgases]

Great photos, thank you much. How many have or know any folks that have done high mile rebuilds on units with that update.
I have seen some talk that the update has not long term fixed the problem.
So how is that Al trash can made? I'm guessing it is a casting of some sort, because a solid bar of aluminum that size and the considerable material removal, would be a crazy expensive endeavor. Maybe a centrifugal casting ?

 

[ctechbob]

Cast or flow-formed I'd WAG. Either way, seems like there would be a ton of machining afterwards.

 

[bimiko939]

Aluminum against steel clutch plates always feels like a ticking time bomb

 

[dnewton3]

Reminds me of the issue with the old GM 4x4 transfer case; problem was called "pump rub". The aluminum casing would eventually get a pin hole in the bottom of the t-case because the pump body (steel) was obviously harder than the housing (aluminum), and the constant pressure of normal operation caused the pump to just beat a hole in the casing. It wasn't a question of "if" you'd experience pump rub; it was a question of "when".

There were various solutions (with varying costs), but the conceptual fix was to spread out the load over a greater area (simple physics; same pressure divided by larger area = lower force). That reduced the force to a magnitude small enough that the aluminum could withstand the condition without further degradation.

 

[Exhaustgases]

Reminds me of the issue with the old GM 4x4 transfer case; problem was called "pump rub". The aluminum casing would eventually get a pin hole in the bottom of the t-case because the pump body (steel) was obviously harder than the housing (aluminum), and the constant pressure of normal operation caused the pump to just beat a hole in the casing. It wasn't a question of "if" you'd experience pump rub; it was a question of "when".

There were various solutions (with varying costs), but the conceptual fix was to spread out the load over a greater area (simple physics; same pressure divided by larger area = lower force). That reduced the force to a magnitude small enough that the aluminum could withstand the condition without further degradation.

Only good thing about that story is, we all need to be happy the engineer, or those engineers did not go to work at Boeing.

 

[Tempest1]

Lubegard makes their "Aluminum Protectant":

https://lubegard.com/product/aluminum-protectant/

Never used it myself, just putting it out there. They've been responsive to emails for me in the past.

 

[nascarnation]

Aluminum against steel clutch plates always feels like a ticking time bomb

There are successful designs that use this approach including a lot of half million mile rated Allisons. It comes down to the specific loads and the processing of the mating parts. On this one they missed some design details. Surely their validation test units were showing this as an area of concern but probably got explained away.

 

[Wylie6G72]

Thanks Ford. Transmission repairs needed on all three. No more Ford for me.

 

[ctechbob]

Lubegard makes their "Aluminum Protectant":

https://lubegard.com/product/aluminum-protectant/

Never used it myself, just putting it out there. They've been responsive to emails for me in the past.

I have wondered about that one myself. I currently use LG Platinum in my 10R80 mainly for the valve body (Along with a very aggressive OCI), but that has crossed my mind, although not enough for me to do any looking into it. I do wonder how it could work though.

 

[Cruisin'n5thgear]

Does this issue affect GM 10L80s as well?

Between this, valve body, and oil pump issues, sounds like an entire rebuild is in our future if we want to get past 150k.

 

[ctechbob]

Does this issue affect GM 10L80s as well?

Between this, valve body, and oil pump issues, sounds like an entire rebuild is in our future if we want to get past 150k.

Yes.

The only thing you can really do is frequent fluid changes to keep the valve body in good shape. Other than that, there's not much else.

Plenty of people supplement with LG Platinum, me included, as it seems to help keep the valve body functioning properly.

 

[Exhaustgases]

Valve body? What about Nextgen or what ever they call it?

 

[ctechbob]

Valve body? What about Nextgen or what ever they call it?

Thought I'd put that in my post above, guess not. By most accounts it is a well done piece, but I don't know anyone personally that is using one. I think @clinebarger either has one or has been up close with one.

 

[clinebarger]

Thought I'd put that in my post above, guess not. By most accounts it is a well done piece, but I don't know anyone personally that is using one. I think @clinebarger either has one or has been up close with one.

Tried one in my Gen 1 10L80, The O-ringed Latch Valves fit to tight in my Valve Body, Shift Valves fit great, I think the Latch Valves probably work well in a worn VB?

I really like their 8L90 Pulse Damper delete kit.