Flat rate was designed for new never driven vehicles?

[GON]

A Mechanic used to be able to negotiate a percentage of the labor rate, We now have to negotiate a dollar amount.

A top tier tech could demand 50% 30 years ago....You'd be extremely lucky to get above $40 on a $250 an hour door rate right now.

Lots of great comments on his thread.

@clinebarger comment is very thought provoking. What if top shelf technicians at new care dealerships were compensated at 50 percent of published labor rate. Would there be a shortage of competent technicians at new car dealers today?

Iirc, many new car dealer technicians in the 1970s were in a union. Full health care, paid vacation, pension plan, no Saturdays.

I am not sure if any trade that has seen a collapse in compensation for the level of expertise expected than a automotive technician.

 

[GON]

I started out at a Honda dealer and progressed on to being a mechanic at UPS. I'm at $45.89 an hour and will be at $49.14 on 8/01/27.

Surprised to hear that hourly rate. I would think a union diesel technician, that is held to extremely high standards, would be at almost double that rate.

I mention extremely high standards from a thread you posted in years ago, where a engine failed, you mentioned at your organization there would be a formal investigation.

 

[t1snwrbrdr12]

Surprised to hear that hourly rate. I would think a union diesel technician, that is held to extremely high standards, would be at almost double that rate.

I mention extremely high standards from a thread you posted in years ago, where an engine failed, you mentioned at your organization there would be a formal investigation.

Idk about UPS, but I left the real world turning wrenches flat rate to go to a government fleet mechanic job. Moved up to lead technician pretty quick. But even with that move up to lead, and 12/13 years in now being topped out in pay, I’m making just barely above what I made in a dealership. I was paid flat rate with no guarantee, but we were on a super team who split hours fairly based on the hours you were at work. We had individual incentives as well as small team incentives. Pay fluctuated a lot and you had to be there about 10 hours a day, 6 days a week to come out making 45-50 hours a week.

I didn’t leave there to get rich obviously. There’s alot more to it. I had to look at money very closely (I left when we were pregnant with our first kid), and decide if we could make it work with a huge cut in pay. Benefits, guaranteed raises, working hours and a set schedule, more time off than I know what to do with were all major factors in leaving to go to this job.

I actually have a college degree in business and wrote my final paper on mechanics pay structure. I argued that it’s better to be paid hourly/salary (with incentives) for everyone involved…mechanic, shop, and the customer.

 

[MrkofXcellence]

Lots of great comments on his thread.

@clinebarger comment is very thought provoking. What if top shelf technicians at new care dealerships were compensated at 50 percent of published labor rate. Would there be a shortage of competent technicians at new car dealers today?

Iirc, many new car dealer technicians in the 1970s were in a union. Full health care, paid vacation, pension plan, no Saturdays.

I am not sure if any trade that has seen a collapse in compensation for the level of expertise expected than a automotive technician.

The level of required expertise having gone way up over the years. I do education for a day job (6-8 grade) and I’m always “palm-on-face” when I hear colleagues wanting to refer kids who are learning delayed to auto tech at the district’s vocational center. People have no idea how much critical thinking and comprehension are necessary to do a good job diagnosing and repairing today’s vehicles. You’re setting that kid up for failure.

 

[The_Jeff]

When I worked at the tire shop my pay was 14% of the customer pay. They also made money on parts.

My wife is a professional (consultant) and gets 33-40% of her billable rate.

Both of us could cause our employers to be sued if we practiced malpractice, so the need for insurance etc is omnipresent. My work was more physical, so the worker's comp premium was higher, but not so much as to steal 2/3 of what could have been my salary.

 

[Chris142]

So you were uncompensated for mounting and balancing tires? WTH?

Yep. As well as free flat repairs and free alignments

 

[skyactiv]

Surprised to hear that hourly rate. I would think a union diesel technician, that is held to extremely high standards, would be at almost double that rate.

I mention extremely high standards from a thread you posted in years ago, where a engine failed, you mentioned at your organization there would be a formal investigation.

We have to compete against FedEx. I will add my benefits are very good. I'm retiring at 57 with a pension, get excellent free health and dental insurance, 5 weeks vacation plus sick days, option days and holiday pay. My union dues are 2.5 hours a month and considering that I get free health insurance the union dues are cheaper than what most people pay on their paychecks for less coverage. My hourly wage would suck in San Fransisco.... but I live where housing is more affordable.

 

[GON]

We have to compete against FedEx. I will add my benefits are very good. I'm retiring at 57 with a pension, get excellent free health and dental insurance, 5 weeks vacation plus sick days, option days and holiday pay. My union dues are 2.5 hours a month and considering that I get free health insurance. My hourly wage would suck in San Fransisco.... but I live where housing is more affordable.

I have a good friend who is a aviation mechanic for American Airlines at LAX. He has been at AA for a few decades.

Not sure this is the case today, but for decades a majority of AA union mechanics were at the AA Tulsa maintenance facility. The contract was essential structured to the benefit of the Tulsa mechanics, at the expense of high cost of living airports like LAX, MIA, JFK, etc. The pay rate in Tulsa was the same pay rate in Los Angelos. The Tulsa mechanics had a large enough block of votes that could not be challenged by union members at other locations.

 

[CKN]

So people are complaining about Independents who seem to charge $150.00/ hour on average. Pay a dealer tech more and that labor rate is sure to go up.

 

[VWRand]

I completely understand why a shop would bill a customer based on Flat Rate. It is better from a customer perspective because the initial quote is accurate.

If I decide to get some work done (customer pay) on my vehicle, and the shop quotes me $400 based on Flat Rate, I know I am paying $400. If they are billing by the hour and tell me halfway through the job that it is taking longer than they thought and it will now cost me $600, what the hell am I supposed to do? Tell them to stop?

 

[Dave Hess]

We have to compete against FedEx. I will add my benefits are very good. I'm retiring at 57 with a pension, get excellent free health and dental insurance, 5 weeks vacation plus sick days, option days and holiday pay. My union dues are 2.5 hours a month and considering that I get free health insurance the union dues are cheaper than what most people pay on their paychecks for less coverage. My hourly wage would suck in San Fransisco.... but I live where housing is more affordable.

Yep.

That’s why sooo many people apply to UPS.

 

[The_Jeff]

So people are complaining about Independents who seem to charge $150.00/ hour on average. Pay a dealer tech more and that labor rate is sure to go up.

Not necessarily. A dealer, like any business, charges the customer the most they can get away with and pays the help the least they can.

The spread is profit for the dealer. Now one guy might buy a dealership from another guy with lots of leverage (debt) and his business plan will be to widen the spread. It's everybody's business plan, and it's his, too. If he can't pull it off, his creditors will eventually make him default and someone with a better game plan will come in.

Now you get workers bugging for more money and the boss says "I can't, I have too much overhead"-- that debt service is a large part of his overhead. It's also exclusively his problem, maybe he paid too much for his business. Workers should never fall into the trap of "I need to be paid less so my boss can get stronger so he can pay me more." Get what you can get out of him or move along to greener pastures!

 

[D60]

I completely understand why a shop would bill a customer based on Flat Rate. It is better from a customer perspective because the initial quote is accurate.

If I decide to get some work done (customer pay) on my vehicle, and the shop quotes me $400 based on Flat Rate, I know I am paying $400. If they are billing by the hour and tell me halfway through the job that it is taking longer than they thought and it will now cost me $600, what the hell am I supposed to do? Tell them to stop?

It doesn't work like that unless your understanding with the shop is "it costs what it costs." You still have a right to ask for a quote on Job X, and they should still give you a number to which they should adhere with true good faith exceptions, like maybe an axle nut just strips coming off -- and said exceptions should apply to flat rate too.

The only difference should be maybe one shop looks at book and quotes based on that while the other chooses whatever number they want (perhaps based on greed, more likely based on experience) and quotes on that.

But a quote is a quote and basic contract law should still apply -- in spirit if nothing else. I know if I want to retain customers I need to stay at my number and if problems arise I promptly contact them and explain why things must change. Fortunately, my customers trust me.

Again, call three contractors and ask for quotes on a kitchen remodel. You supply the blueprints and you spec the appliances, and yet the quotes may vary by 60% or more. Why? Again, maybe greed, or maybe some simply value their time more than others.