Fixed cold start tick, came back after OC
- Thread starter delirious
- Start date
- Status
I have a 1997 Cherokee with the 4.0L and have had lifter tick for the last 100,000 miles.
It comes and goes and the Jeep gets a steady diet of Hastings filters and private brand Warren oil @ a 3,000 mile OCI.
No real start up clatter from the Hastings though.
The little Jeep gets fleet service at work. If it were mine, I'd stay with the Hastings but move to Shell Rotella semi-syn 10w30 HDEO.
It comes and goes and the Jeep gets a steady diet of Hastings filters and private brand Warren oil @ a 3,000 mile OCI.
No real start up clatter from the Hastings though.
The little Jeep gets fleet service at work. If it were mine, I'd stay with the Hastings but move to Shell Rotella semi-syn 10w30 HDEO.
Originally Posted By: JeepWJ19
Stock sized filter did the trick. Thanks all.
Nice work mate. Well done !
Stock sized filter did the trick. Thanks all.
Nice work mate. Well done !
- Joined
- Sep 9, 2015
- Messages
- 1,072
Unfortunately my attempts to try to find the right mixture to solve this lifter tick did not work.
Hmmmm lol, makes me think. It seems like my jeep like the thicker formulation of Pennzoil High Mileage over Pennzoil conventional but likes the better flow. Next time I might try 3qts of 5w30 and 3qts of 10w30.
I had to go to Wal-Mart to get the stock sized filter. I saw they are selling Pennzoil Platinum High Mileage. Might have to try that since synthetics like the cold flow better. Maybe a 5qt 10w30 and a qt of 5w30.
If I do decide to go with Pennzoil Platinum High Mileage I'll probably get it tested since I can't seem to find anywhere of VOAs or used oil analysis of Pennzoil Platinum High Mileage
Hmmmm lol, makes me think. It seems like my jeep like the thicker formulation of Pennzoil High Mileage over Pennzoil conventional but likes the better flow. Next time I might try 3qts of 5w30 and 3qts of 10w30.
I had to go to Wal-Mart to get the stock sized filter. I saw they are selling Pennzoil Platinum High Mileage. Might have to try that since synthetics like the cold flow better. Maybe a 5qt 10w30 and a qt of 5w30.
If I do decide to go with Pennzoil Platinum High Mileage I'll probably get it tested since I can't seem to find anywhere of VOAs or used oil analysis of Pennzoil Platinum High Mileage
So which filter did you put on it? After 5 years of experimentation I am finally starting to think the stock size might work marginally better (for example my PH16 / PH8A experiment which the Jeep seems to favor the PH16).
Interesting.
My car also has a low RPM tick that eventually goes away, but it's quite annoying. You are making me want to try a different filter.
It's a horizontal cartridge filter, half way up the engine. Is there any reason why I can't just swap the filter one morning when the engine is cold and all the oil is in the sump? It's fresh oil, so I don't want to drain it yet.
It's a horizontal cartridge filter, half way up the engine. Is there any reason why I can't just swap the filter one morning when the engine is cold and all the oil is in the sump? It's fresh oil, so I don't want to drain it yet.
- Joined
- Sep 9, 2015
- Messages
- 1,072
Originally Posted By: CELICA_XX
You should contact SteveSRT8 or Trav about the Kreen treatment... I've read many of their posts about similar issues.
I was referred to that. I don't think my problem is a sticky/dirty lifter haha. The top of the head is spotless, I can only imagine how the bottom looks with high pressure with 3500 miles OCIs over the past 40-50 thousand miles.
I think this is a classic case of lifter bleed down
You should contact SteveSRT8 or Trav about the Kreen treatment... I've read many of their posts about similar issues.
I was referred to that. I don't think my problem is a sticky/dirty lifter haha. The top of the head is spotless, I can only imagine how the bottom looks with high pressure with 3500 miles OCIs over the past 40-50 thousand miles.
I think this is a classic case of lifter bleed down
- Joined
- Sep 9, 2015
- Messages
- 1,072
Originally Posted By: SR5
My car also has a low RPM tick that eventually goes away, but it's quite annoying. You are making me want to try a different filter.
It's a horizontal cartridge filter, half way up the engine. Is there any reason why I can't just swap the filter one morning when the engine is cold and all the oil is in the sump? It's fresh oil, so I don't want to drain it yet.
My jeep 4.0 also has a horizontal filter about halfway up. That's what I did. I just screwed the TG8A off (making sure there is an oil pan below) and then filled the TG16 (stock sized filter) and lubed the gasket and on it went!
My car also has a low RPM tick that eventually goes away, but it's quite annoying. You are making me want to try a different filter.
It's a horizontal cartridge filter, half way up the engine. Is there any reason why I can't just swap the filter one morning when the engine is cold and all the oil is in the sump? It's fresh oil, so I don't want to drain it yet.
My jeep 4.0 also has a horizontal filter about halfway up. That's what I did. I just screwed the TG8A off (making sure there is an oil pan below) and then filled the TG16 (stock sized filter) and lubed the gasket and on it went!
Originally Posted By: JeepWJ19
Originally Posted By: SR5
My car also has a low RPM tick that eventually goes away, but it's quite annoying. You are making me want to try a different filter.
It's a horizontal cartridge filter, half way up the engine. Is there any reason why I can't just swap the filter one morning when the engine is cold and all the oil is in the sump? It's fresh oil, so I don't want to drain it yet.
My jeep 4.0 also has a horizontal filter about halfway up. That's what I did. I just screwed the TG8A off (making sure there is an oil pan below) and then filled the TG16 (stock sized filter) and lubed the gasket and on it went!
Thanks mate. That is what I will do.
Originally Posted By: SR5
My car also has a low RPM tick that eventually goes away, but it's quite annoying. You are making me want to try a different filter.
It's a horizontal cartridge filter, half way up the engine. Is there any reason why I can't just swap the filter one morning when the engine is cold and all the oil is in the sump? It's fresh oil, so I don't want to drain it yet.
My jeep 4.0 also has a horizontal filter about halfway up. That's what I did. I just screwed the TG8A off (making sure there is an oil pan below) and then filled the TG16 (stock sized filter) and lubed the gasket and on it went!
Thanks mate. That is what I will do.
This thread caught my eye because mine started doing this about 30K miles ago, and once it warmed up the tick went away. I figured it was either a lifter bleeding down or somehow a piece of trash or carbon got caught in the pushrod. I tried several different brands of oil and filter, MMO, Sea Foam, you name it. Nothing got rid of it permanently, but Rotella did make the intervals it didn't tick last longer.
Cracked compression ring was the culprit. I drove it with the tick and didn't have any performance loss for a long, long time, but oil consumption began to creep up and then it started misfiring.
I'd do a cylinder leakdown test and a compression test just to eliminate those variables. That's how I discovered mine; all the cylinders were in fine shape but the number five, which had 80 psi. All the additives in the world can't fix a busted ring, which is what I fear you have. Unfortunately a busted ring eats the cylinder wall, so a rebuild is necessary.
If the tick never returns, that's great. I hope it was just something lodged where it shouldn't have been in your case.
Cracked compression ring was the culprit. I drove it with the tick and didn't have any performance loss for a long, long time, but oil consumption began to creep up and then it started misfiring.
I'd do a cylinder leakdown test and a compression test just to eliminate those variables. That's how I discovered mine; all the cylinders were in fine shape but the number five, which had 80 psi. All the additives in the world can't fix a busted ring, which is what I fear you have. Unfortunately a busted ring eats the cylinder wall, so a rebuild is necessary.
If the tick never returns, that's great. I hope it was just something lodged where it shouldn't have been in your case.
Last edited:
- Joined
- Sep 9, 2015
- Messages
- 1,072
Originally Posted By: Coconuteater64
This thread caught my eye because mine started doing this about 30K miles ago, and once it warmed up the tick went away. I figured it was either a lifter bleeding down or somehow a piece of trash or carbon got caught in the pushrod. I tried several different brands of oil and filter, MMO, Sea Foam, you name it. Nothing got rid of it permanently, but Rotella did make the intervals it didn't tick last longer.
Cracked compression ring was the culprit. I drove it with the tick and didn't have any performance loss for a long, long time, but oil consumption began to creep up and then it started misfiring.
I'd do a cylinder leakdown test and a compression test just to eliminate those variables. That's how I discovered mine; all the cylinders were in fine shape but the number five, which had 80 psi. All the additives in the world can't fix a busted ring, which is what I fear you have. Unfortunately a busted ring eats the cylinder wall, so a rebuild is necessary.
If the tick never returns, that's great. I hope it was just something lodged where it shouldn't have been in your case.
What were the symptoms of your cracked compression ring?
This thread caught my eye because mine started doing this about 30K miles ago, and once it warmed up the tick went away. I figured it was either a lifter bleeding down or somehow a piece of trash or carbon got caught in the pushrod. I tried several different brands of oil and filter, MMO, Sea Foam, you name it. Nothing got rid of it permanently, but Rotella did make the intervals it didn't tick last longer.
Cracked compression ring was the culprit. I drove it with the tick and didn't have any performance loss for a long, long time, but oil consumption began to creep up and then it started misfiring.
I'd do a cylinder leakdown test and a compression test just to eliminate those variables. That's how I discovered mine; all the cylinders were in fine shape but the number five, which had 80 psi. All the additives in the world can't fix a busted ring, which is what I fear you have. Unfortunately a busted ring eats the cylinder wall, so a rebuild is necessary.
If the tick never returns, that's great. I hope it was just something lodged where it shouldn't have been in your case.
What were the symptoms of your cracked compression ring?
- Joined
- Sep 9, 2015
- Messages
- 1,072
Ok so I thought I would give an update.
The stock filter size after all did not solve it as I thought it did. It does it less and not as harsh at idle while hot.
So right now I'm not even worrying about this cold start that I once was able to silence. Im focused now on this ticking at idle.
So to eliminate variables, I switched back to what I had last OC that I used for winter that did not have a ticking at idle while hot which was Fram TG16 filter and 5 qts of Pennzoil High Mileage 10w30 with 1qt of Pennzoil High Mileage 5w30. I drained the oil out and put that in. Same thing although mpg has slightly risen but not yet back to what it was.
So I asked myself -> "what has changed between this oil change and my last oil change"? I'm now using the same filter and oil combo I did for the winter so why is it still ticking at hot and idle. I would also like to mention that it actually ticks longer at cold start now vs when it did in the winter. How is that even possible? Same oil and filter combination, just that now it's summer with higher temperatures. GRRRRR hahaha.
So the two things that have absolutely changed is:
1) climate temperatures are warmer
2) oil pressure
I just described climate temperatures and I am completely baffled how the combo worked better in the cold but now it's giving me these fits.
The other thing is the oil pressure, specifically hot at idle. So typically, while driving for a while and the jeep is nice and hot at operating temp, I would see the oil pressure gauge fluctuating around 30 psi. I have yet to see it do that. Now after driving around for awhile and the jeep is nice at operating temp idling it is at 40psi. Again, what the heck?! It's the same engine temp year round, how am I not getting 30psi with the same combo? Why is it ticking longer and especially at idle in a warmer climate vs winter?
Hopefully you guys can shed some light. The only major difference right now is that:
1) The TG8A i believe was better on cold start, engine sounded much more smooth.
2) The TG16 at idle hot has reduced severely the ticking.
3) When I had the TG8A if I were to shut off the jeep while it was hot at idle and then turn it back on (like if I were to go in a store really quickly) it would tick really bad until I started driving for 5 seconds. Where it does not do that with the 16.
Sorry for the long post. The only other thing I can think is try other filters. 40k miles and 4 years of good OCIs with the TG16 and the MOPAR filters I've never had this happen. Hmmm.
So I went to Walmart and bought a Motorcraft FL1A and a stock ome MOPAR MO090 filter. Do you guys think I should try those filters? Which one should I try first? This really has me baffled. Although I do recall that last summer I ran PYB10w30 and had the ticking hot at idle too. I used to run 10w40 in the summer but I can't remember if that quieted things down or not.
Thanks all
The stock filter size after all did not solve it as I thought it did. It does it less and not as harsh at idle while hot.
So right now I'm not even worrying about this cold start that I once was able to silence. Im focused now on this ticking at idle.
So to eliminate variables, I switched back to what I had last OC that I used for winter that did not have a ticking at idle while hot which was Fram TG16 filter and 5 qts of Pennzoil High Mileage 10w30 with 1qt of Pennzoil High Mileage 5w30. I drained the oil out and put that in. Same thing although mpg has slightly risen but not yet back to what it was.
So I asked myself -> "what has changed between this oil change and my last oil change"? I'm now using the same filter and oil combo I did for the winter so why is it still ticking at hot and idle. I would also like to mention that it actually ticks longer at cold start now vs when it did in the winter. How is that even possible? Same oil and filter combination, just that now it's summer with higher temperatures. GRRRRR hahaha.
So the two things that have absolutely changed is:
1) climate temperatures are warmer
2) oil pressure
I just described climate temperatures and I am completely baffled how the combo worked better in the cold but now it's giving me these fits.
The other thing is the oil pressure, specifically hot at idle. So typically, while driving for a while and the jeep is nice and hot at operating temp, I would see the oil pressure gauge fluctuating around 30 psi. I have yet to see it do that. Now after driving around for awhile and the jeep is nice at operating temp idling it is at 40psi. Again, what the heck?! It's the same engine temp year round, how am I not getting 30psi with the same combo? Why is it ticking longer and especially at idle in a warmer climate vs winter?
Hopefully you guys can shed some light. The only major difference right now is that:
1) The TG8A i believe was better on cold start, engine sounded much more smooth.
2) The TG16 at idle hot has reduced severely the ticking.
3) When I had the TG8A if I were to shut off the jeep while it was hot at idle and then turn it back on (like if I were to go in a store really quickly) it would tick really bad until I started driving for 5 seconds. Where it does not do that with the 16.
Sorry for the long post. The only other thing I can think is try other filters. 40k miles and 4 years of good OCIs with the TG16 and the MOPAR filters I've never had this happen. Hmmm.
So I went to Walmart and bought a Motorcraft FL1A and a stock ome MOPAR MO090 filter. Do you guys think I should try those filters? Which one should I try first? This really has me baffled. Although I do recall that last summer I ran PYB10w30 and had the ticking hot at idle too. I used to run 10w40 in the summer but I can't remember if that quieted things down or not.
Thanks all
- Joined
- Sep 9, 2015
- Messages
- 1,072
Well I thought I would give another update today because something interesting has just happened.
Talking to the expert KCJeep, I decided to try the different filter. So I chose the FL1A over the stock oem Mopar filter. And I put half the qt of the thick Pennzoil High Mileage 10w40 in it. WELLLLLLLLLL, I decided to start driving and it was still ticking but I noticed how much smoother it ran and the ticking was actually really quieter (I waited til my jeep cooled off before I put the filter on). So I'm driving around and MAN, this thing literally is not making a peep. I'm sitting in my jeep with the fan off and the radio off and I cannot hear a thing! WHAT?! So I give it a good run on the highway and came back home and still no ticking at idle while hot. I kept it running while idle and it was normal, I could see the oil pressure fluctuating between 30-40psi.
Not only was the ticking solved but this is the smoothest and quietest I've heard this jeep in over a year. Simply brilliant.
I then gave it another test. I wait five minutes after shutting it off to turn it back on to see if it ticks on hot startup. Just the tiniest bit of valve chatter/tick but it quickly went away like the stock filters I've used.
I might be a dunce since I won't know if the half qt of 10w40 did the trick or somehow the FL1A did it. Maybe it's both. But it's not far from over. It worked this time but I am not sure if I will get the same results.
I'll chop this up as a 'W' for now. Now that I got the oil up running through it and mixed, I'm excited to see how it does on cold start tomorrow morning because I will note the TG8A did better in my opinion than the 16 on cold start. I'm thinking it was because there is more oil in there initially but who knows.
Thanks everyone. I'd still like to know how I can quiet these lifters on cold start. I can't believe i was able to get it once but can't get it anymore lol
Talking to the expert KCJeep, I decided to try the different filter. So I chose the FL1A over the stock oem Mopar filter. And I put half the qt of the thick Pennzoil High Mileage 10w40 in it. WELLLLLLLLLL, I decided to start driving and it was still ticking but I noticed how much smoother it ran and the ticking was actually really quieter (I waited til my jeep cooled off before I put the filter on). So I'm driving around and MAN, this thing literally is not making a peep. I'm sitting in my jeep with the fan off and the radio off and I cannot hear a thing! WHAT?! So I give it a good run on the highway and came back home and still no ticking at idle while hot. I kept it running while idle and it was normal, I could see the oil pressure fluctuating between 30-40psi.
Not only was the ticking solved but this is the smoothest and quietest I've heard this jeep in over a year. Simply brilliant.
I then gave it another test. I wait five minutes after shutting it off to turn it back on to see if it ticks on hot startup. Just the tiniest bit of valve chatter/tick but it quickly went away like the stock filters I've used.
I might be a dunce since I won't know if the half qt of 10w40 did the trick or somehow the FL1A did it. Maybe it's both. But it's not far from over. It worked this time but I am not sure if I will get the same results.
I'll chop this up as a 'W' for now. Now that I got the oil up running through it and mixed, I'm excited to see how it does on cold start tomorrow morning because I will note the TG8A did better in my opinion than the 16 on cold start. I'm thinking it was because there is more oil in there initially but who knows.
Thanks everyone. I'd still like to know how I can quiet these lifters on cold start. I can't believe i was able to get it once but can't get it anymore lol
- Status
