First M1 UOA on 126K 3VZ-FE

[theophile]

5,440 miles in 8 months 50/50 city/highway driving. Car previously had 3-4K dino intervals of Penn., QS and Shaeffer's. Early during this interval I had the valve gaskets and spark plugs replaced, and I cleaned the Throttle Body and poured a couple of bottles of Techron in the tank (about 2500 miles apart). K&N air filter in service for 82K miles, cleaned 19K miles back. Synthetic media oil filter. Blackstone Labs. .75 qt. make-up oil.
sample universal averages
Aluminum 3 3
Chromium 0 1
Iron 12 9
Copper 7 4
Lead 58 4
Tin 0 1
Molybdenum 76 45
Nickel 1 0
Manganese 0 0
Silver 0 0
Titanium 0 0
Potassium 3 1
Boron 105 42
Silicon 30 19
Sodium 16 5
Calcium 2740 1575
Magnesium 40 531
Phosphorus788 733
Zinc 945 855
Barium 0 0
TBN 6.5
SUS 61.2
Flashpoint 405F
Fuel
I'd like to lengthen the mileage interval on this oil. Engine runs somewhat quieter since on M1. I welcome all comments. New member, first post, lots of good info at this site. Thanks!

 

[Patman]

Is that lead number actually 58ppm or is it a typo? If it's for real, something is wrong (hopefully it's lab error, otherwise you've got bearing issues here)

 

[joee12]

Theophile, what viscoscity is this oil? -Joe

[ May 24, 2003, 07:02 AM: Message edited by: joee12 ]

 

[theophile]

I forgot to mention, 10W30. Blackstone says other wear metals were low thus high lead level is probably not bearing wear. This is my first UOA ever so I'm certainly open to opinions/advice. Does Techron contain high lead? Perhaps it was in the TB cleaner I used? Engine runs as well now as it did when I bought vehicle used with 20K miles.

 

[Pablo]

Why would Blackstone say that? (not a rhetorical question) Just curious where the Pb could come from.

Techron has no lead, nor should your gas, even in Alaska

Cu is not high, though......hmm......and Sn = 0

Si is a tad highish.........

The rest of the report is quite excellent.

 

[theophile]

I haven't spoken with Blackstone to ask why although I might. Could the high Si come from gasket material from the vlv cover job, or dirt ingestion from throttle body cleaning? And, perhaps the mech. who changed the plugs used anti-seize on the threads and it has lead? Worn rings allowing anti-seize into crankcase? I'm reaching here! Perhaps I should repeat a UOA at the same interval to verify and compare?

 

[Spector]

Here are my lead numbers over 155,000 miles on the Camry V6. This is a Toyota we are looking at I hope. Otherwise this post can be deleted. All about a 7500 OCI.
39,22,15,14,21,19,21,18,29,25,18,17,77,17,38,42,32,

Note the last three are climbing again. Sould 58 be of alarm, well, wait until the next one and see. In my case, higher lead is normal for my enigine and driving. The 77ppm was at 15,000 miles.

Does 58 ppm mean excessive wear or premature engine failure, don't make any assumptions until you ave a few results to look at the trends. Increasing would certainly be an issue, constant or decreasing may not be.

 

[theophile]

Spector, this is what I was hoping to hear. Yes, its a Lexus/Camry. What about extended intervals?
Is 7500 about all this oil can last? Gotta go. I'll be lurking tonight. Thanks.

 

[TooSlick]

Since you are using Mobil 1 for the first time, the lead can be from cleaning out residual deposits. I wouldn't worry about it unless you see it 2-3 times in a row. All the other wear numbers look just fine.

Based on this one analysis, I'd say 6000 miles will be about the limit on this engine/oil combo. The Camry V-6 is very hard on oil. I've been recommending 7500 miles max even with the extended drain, Amsoil formulations just to be on the safe side ....

TooSlick
Dixie Synthetics

 

[Drstressor]

Ted, just out of curiosity, why are you suggesting that the oil should be dumped at 6K? Wear metals (except for pb), TBN, and viscosity look ok. He should be fine for 7.5K at least. Are you being conservative because Blackstone doesn't include oxidation?

 

[Jay]

I'm curious about how you pulled this sample, theophile. Did it come from the dipstick or the drainplug? If from the drainplug, was it a mid-stream sample?

 

[Toy4x4]

How similiar is this engine to the 3VZ-E which I have in my '93 truck? The same but has the "F" since its in a car?

 

[theophile]

Jay, I pulled it in midstream being very careful not to contaminate it. Toy 4x4, don't know what the 'F' means. However, this is in an es300 built early in '93. I think some mods were made later in that year on this engine. Don't quote me! I did find out that the V6 engines in American built Camry's of the same year have electric aux. cooling fans where mine is hydraulic. I believe the hp of the es motor is rated at 188.

 

[Spector]

quote:

---

Originally posted by theophile:
Spector, this is what I was hoping to hear. Yes, its a Lexus/Camry. What about extended intervals?
Is 7500 about all this oil can last? Gotta go. I'll be lurking tonight. Thanks.

---

After 7500 on the 10W30 is about it for me, the TBN is in the 3-6 range by then and in a few cases has increase to a 40 weight as well. So, I just stay with the 7500 OCI for me.

 

[YZF150]

Perhaps it is bearings. Maybe a 5w or 0w would be more appropriate for Alaska startups?

 

[wtd]

Here are the lead levels from my 98 chevy truck with the 5.7L V-8 from first analysis to last. 55, 18, 43, and 9. The 55 and 43 levels were during the times I used Techron.

Techron may not contain lead, but I think something in its makeup may cause higher lead levels. When I got the 18 and 9 levels, I was not using Techron. It may be coinsidence but I don't think so.

Wayne

 

[Bror Jace]

I know one of the bits of conventional wisdom which has been floated on car forums is that you should use Techron about 2 weeks (or 2 tankfuls) before changing your oil. Some of the Techron additive will get into the oil and essentially foul it, degrading its ability to protect. Perhaps that's what happened here?

Having said that, I think I've seen some results on this forum from heavy Techron owners who have had decent results. I just don't have time to do a search through this section.

Perhaps it's the way Techron reacts with certain oils and/or additives?

--- Bror Jace

 

[2533a]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Toy4x4:

How similiar is this engine to the 3VZ-E which I have in my '93 truck? The same but has the "F" since its in a car?

---

The 3VZ-E (pre-Tacoma pickup) and 3VZ-FE (pre-'94 Camry and Lexus ES300) are members of the same engine family. The 3VZ-E is a SOHC design with two valves per cylinder whereas the 3VZ-FE is a DOHC design with four valves per cylinder.

The "F" denotes a DOHC head with a narrow angle between the intake and exhaust valves - tuned for a flatter torque curve. "G" DOHC heads have a wide valve angle and are used on the high performance versions of Toyota engines.