Is it worth the expense and trouble to put a bypass in the transmission line, or is a full flow filter plenty good enough to extend the life of the transmission?
Filtering the AT fluid - Full flow, or dual bypass?
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I'm struggling with this too since I'm about to install a cooler and will be in there anyway. I originaly planned on a full flow but now I'm leaning toward bypass. Seems to me bypass would be better. Either will beat the stock screen though. If you decide on full flow you might want to check out the Magnefine filter. A bit small but cheap and easy to install. I use it on my PS systems.
On another note, can anyone recommend a flow rate through a bypass filter on an auto tranny? Quarts/pints per minute? If I do go with a bypass I'll be making a custom restrictor so I need to know what is best. If it matters the filter will be a spin on, probably a Purolator L30003 or equivelant. And will a 1/4" (AN-4)line back to the pan be too small?
On another note, can anyone recommend a flow rate through a bypass filter on an auto tranny? Quarts/pints per minute? If I do go with a bypass I'll be making a custom restrictor so I need to know what is best. If it matters the filter will be a spin on, probably a Purolator L30003 or equivelant. And will a 1/4" (AN-4)line back to the pan be too small?
[I swear Chen is gonna think I am stalking him on this board
]
I'm debating on this same decision as well. I recently had occasion where my tranny just flat quit working due to crap in the fluid. Lots of clutch dust, a 4mm piece of AL frag, and a plugged pan screen [yipe!].
Filter and fuid change solved the problem, but I wonder how much of that would have been prevented by a ff install?
I will probably install a purolator spinon in the pressure line this coming week, on all my vehicles-- it's cheap enough through Summit after all, and I'm already in there replacing the rubber lines to my cooler with AN fittings. I'll keep an eye on things and decide if it's worth $100 and a couple rolls of TP afterwards.
I'm debating on this same decision as well. I recently had occasion where my tranny just flat quit working due to crap in the fluid. Lots of clutch dust, a 4mm piece of AL frag, and a plugged pan screen [yipe!].
Filter and fuid change solved the problem, but I wonder how much of that would have been prevented by a ff install?
I will probably install a purolator spinon in the pressure line this coming week, on all my vehicles-- it's cheap enough through Summit after all, and I'm already in there replacing the rubber lines to my cooler with AN fittings. I'll keep an eye on things and decide if it's worth $100 and a couple rolls of TP afterwards.
Folks-
for bypass filtration, you may want to give this a look.
http://theoildrop.server101.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=36;t=000390
it's a diesel fuel filter, used in bypass. I may have to find out the threadpitch on the filter and see if it'll work for us.
for bypass filtration, you may want to give this a look.
http://theoildrop.server101.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=36;t=000390
it's a diesel fuel filter, used in bypass. I may have to find out the threadpitch on the filter and see if it'll work for us.
I installed a permacool remote tranny filter kit about 8 months ago with a M1-204 oil filter along with a filter magnet from filtermag. I just did a filter change about 4 months ago and at the same time i wanted to checkout what was trapped in the filter and by the magnet. Just like the magnets in the pan some clutch material was found. The other day i did a fluid change and it was bright red (15K) miles on the fluid. I plan on doing filter changes and fluid changes every year. Im also running a hayden cooler as well.
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You appear to be using (or planning on using) a 10um filter. The setup offered by WIX (NAPA if X-ref'd) has its own restrictor
Part Number: 24755
UPC Number: 765809247550
Principal Application: By-Pass Filter Base to Add Spin-on By-Pass Filter on Small Gas and Diesel Engines. (51050, 51051 or 51320 May be Used)
All Applications
Style: Filter Mounting Base
Service: Base
Note: Lube Filter Conversion Kits By-Pass Filter For Small Gas And Diesel Engines
Large Gas and Diesel engine equipped with cartridge type by-pass filters can be converted to the convenience of a spin-on with this kit. The kit may also be used to add-on supplemental by-pass filtration to provide increased engine protection. A choice of three different sized filters are available.
WIX specialty catalog - look about halfway down
I don't see the need to tap into the pan. I believe if you bridge the cooler lines close enough to the transmission that the pressure drop across the cooling circuit should be enough to induce all the flow you could desire through a bypass filter.
I would also point out that, although your fluid will remain much cleaner with the use of a finer filter, the ability to capture converter ejecta will be random or on a "percentage of pass" basis. If your converter clutch decides to grenade, the rest of your trans internals will be subjected to whatever damage will occur. The cooling circuit is an intermediate point in the hydraulic circuit, designed to dump the heat created by the viscous action of the turbine and impeller (creating excess heat). It doesn't go directly back to the pan.
This can naturally be solved by the additon of a magnefine placed in line in addition to any bypass setup.
Thanx Gary.
I don't think I can use that rig unless it has 1/2" ports. I have 1/2" lines on a tranny that is in the rear of the car. I need to run all the way to the front for a cooler install (car is rear engined and has radiator/electric fans up front) and back to the tranny.
The only place I have for a filter is in the right front wheel well. My plan was to use any spin on mount with 1/2 NPT ports. I'd tee this filter into the supply line to the cooler and the filter outlet would go back to the pan via a 1/4" line. The restrictor would be a machined plug press fit into the spin on center stud.
It's either that or I just go with plumbing it as a full flow and using a full flow filter instead of a BP filter and restrictor. It all comes down to the plumbing. The parts are the same other than the choice of filters and a restrictor.
I had thought about putting the filter across the lines but yours was the first opinion it'd work. I could do that with only a slight change of plumbing but it'd still be up in the wheel well though, closer to the cooler than the tranny. I wonder if the pressure drop across the cooler would be enough. It'd sure simplifiy things if it was.
Regular inline Magnefine too small me thinks and it only comes in 3/8 or 5/16". I need to stay with 1/2". Any opinion on those drop in ceramic magnets or that "Force Field" spin on magnet gadget, also by Magnefine?
I don't think I can use that rig unless it has 1/2" ports. I have 1/2" lines on a tranny that is in the rear of the car. I need to run all the way to the front for a cooler install (car is rear engined and has radiator/electric fans up front) and back to the tranny.
The only place I have for a filter is in the right front wheel well. My plan was to use any spin on mount with 1/2 NPT ports. I'd tee this filter into the supply line to the cooler and the filter outlet would go back to the pan via a 1/4" line. The restrictor would be a machined plug press fit into the spin on center stud.
It's either that or I just go with plumbing it as a full flow and using a full flow filter instead of a BP filter and restrictor. It all comes down to the plumbing. The parts are the same other than the choice of filters and a restrictor.
I had thought about putting the filter across the lines but yours was the first opinion it'd work. I could do that with only a slight change of plumbing but it'd still be up in the wheel well though, closer to the cooler than the tranny. I wonder if the pressure drop across the cooler would be enough. It'd sure simplifiy things if it was.
Regular inline Magnefine too small me thinks and it only comes in 3/8 or 5/16". I need to stay with 1/2". Any opinion on those drop in ceramic magnets or that "Force Field" spin on magnet gadget, also by Magnefine?
Cheno--
question: if you're going to have to restrict it anyway, why is 1/2" NPT so important? [ if it's that important I suggest this unit: http://store.summitracing.com/defau...earchinresults=false&N=0&target=egnsearch.asp ] available with vertical ports as well, PN TRD-1028 on the same site. ]
Why not just use an adapter with smaller ports and use that as part of the restiction? Or were you concerned you wouldn't be able to find a filter head with 1/2NPT ports-- in which case I'll take payment of a bottle of Glenlivet when you ship the adapters we discussed. ;P
question: if you're going to have to restrict it anyway, why is 1/2" NPT so important? [ if it's that important I suggest this unit: http://store.summitracing.com/defau...earchinresults=false&N=0&target=egnsearch.asp ] available with vertical ports as well, PN TRD-1028 on the same site. ]
Why not just use an adapter with smaller ports and use that as part of the restiction? Or were you concerned you wouldn't be able to find a filter head with 1/2NPT ports-- in which case I'll take payment of a bottle of Glenlivet when you ship the adapters we discussed. ;P
I guess I'm not being clear enough. My bad. First, that's a dual mount. I don't have either the need or the room for it. It's not that I can't find a 1/2" ported single mount as there are plenty to choose from. I will have to mod it a bit for a tranny temp sensor as there doesn't seem to be a 1/2" one with a sensor port (due to the bigger main ports).
If I go with full flow I'd still need 1/2" ports because of the long lines but yes, you're correct that if I go with a bypass filter I could use a smaller ported mount. The hassle with that is getting the right fittings to tee into it. It's just easier to deal with AN-8 is all but yes, I could do as you suggest. I wouldn't be able to change it later though if I decide full flow is better. This is also the rational for using the 3/4-16 to 5/8-18 adaptor with a custom restictor.
I mean come on, what's the point of even doing this if I'm unable to continually mess with it?
[ October 16, 2005, 08:53 PM: Message edited by: chenobylite ]
If I go with full flow I'd still need 1/2" ports because of the long lines but yes, you're correct that if I go with a bypass filter I could use a smaller ported mount. The hassle with that is getting the right fittings to tee into it. It's just easier to deal with AN-8 is all but yes, I could do as you suggest. I wouldn't be able to change it later though if I decide full flow is better. This is also the rational for using the 3/4-16 to 5/8-18 adaptor with a custom restictor.
I mean come on, what's the point of even doing this if I'm unable to continually mess with it?
[ October 16, 2005, 08:53 PM: Message edited by: chenobylite ]
If the only space you have is up front and the trans is in the back, then I say go with a full-flow because adding a bypass will require alot of extra plumbing. You'd have to T it into the circuit up front and then route the clean oil all the way back to the trans. If there was any way you could mount the filter back near the transmission then that would be easier.
There should be plenty of filter mounts out there with 1/2" ports, so I won't go any further with that. But if you want to add a bypass, the size of the OEM plumbing is irrelevent. To install a T to route fluid to the bypass filter, you'd buy a brass T with three 1/2" NPT female ports. In 2 of the ports you'd install 1/2" pipe thread to 1/2" hose barb fittings and in the third port you'd install a 1/2" to 1/8" reducer and then a 1/8" pipe thread to 3/8" hose barb fitting. That way your 1/2" OEM plumbing is uniterrupted and you can run 3/8" hose to the bypass filter. Then you're just left with finding a way to return the fluid to the transmission. Either a weld-in fitting or a hollow bolt.
There should be plenty of filter mounts out there with 1/2" ports, so I won't go any further with that. But if you want to add a bypass, the size of the OEM plumbing is irrelevent. To install a T to route fluid to the bypass filter, you'd buy a brass T with three 1/2" NPT female ports. In 2 of the ports you'd install 1/2" pipe thread to 1/2" hose barb fittings and in the third port you'd install a 1/2" to 1/8" reducer and then a 1/8" pipe thread to 3/8" hose barb fitting. That way your 1/2" OEM plumbing is uniterrupted and you can run 3/8" hose to the bypass filter. Then you're just left with finding a way to return the fluid to the transmission. Either a weld-in fitting or a hollow bolt.
0.5 quarts/minute is what my tranny specialist suggested, so a 1/4" return line is fine. I use a 3/8" feed line(only because it's convenient) and a 1/4" return line on my trans bypass filters.
The fluid returning to the trans from the cooling circuit is used to lube/cool the output section so you want to limit the amount the bypass filters draws out of the circuit. 1/2 a quart per minute is minimal percentage-wise and all the fluid in the trans will still be cleaned every 20-30 minutes or running time.
Thanks Olympic.
The size of the plumbing needs to remain at 1/2" for the cooler. It's a ways up front and back, about 18 feet total. I need the flow.
I'm staying with 1/2" ports on the mount for somewhat the reasons you mentioned: so I can deal with the inlet without having to reduce it. If I used a smaller ported mount as burnkat suggested I'd need a way to reduce from 1/2" to the smaller port size on the inlet. Difficult using the fittings I want to employ and not very elegant.
Yes, I've found several 1/2 NPT mounts. They all come with a 3/4-16 filter stud. I'll replace that with a machined 5/8-18 adapter designed to accept the Fram BP50 or Purolator L30003 bypass spin on. The center of this adapter will have a press fit plug drilled with a restrictor sized to allow your recommended .5 quart/minute through the filter.
No hose barbs or rubber, this rig will be all SS braid, 304 SS seamless rigid tubing, and 37 degree anodized AN fittings. The supply line from the tranny will go to a length of 1/2" tubing that'll run under the car to the right wheel well. There it'll transition to AN-8 SS braided hose to the filter. At the filter it'll tee into it (as it continues on to the cooler) by using an AN-8 tee with 1/2 NPT on the center "run" of the tee. Since the tranny is very low mileage and the cooler is new I've decided to place the filter in the supply line to the cooler and not after it. This will keep the cooler from crapping up as it'll be a stacked plate cooler, not some fin and tube cheapie.
The return line from the cooler will be AN-8 hose back to the wheel well where it'll transition to a second length of 1/2" 304 tubing and go back to the tranny. No connection of this line to the filter of course. At that point the cooling loop will be complete.
The filter outlet port will be reduced using a 1/2" X 1/4" NPT SS bushing and then changed to AN-4 hose. That hose will go to a run of 1/4" 304 seamless tubing that'll end near the tranny pan. Then it's another short AN-4 hose where it'll enter the pan using a straight AN-4 weld-in.
The only extra plumbing over a full flow setup would be the 1/4" line and two hoses running from the filter mount in the wheel well back to the pan. About 5 feet total including the hoses and rigid tubing. As I'll be removing the pan anyway to do a stock screen change I don't consider tig welding in the AN-4 pan fitting any real extra work.
Make sense? That's the plan so far but I'm still open to suggestions. Overkill I know but this isn't my daily driver. It's a toy and any work done on it needs to be a cut above. It needs this though, the tranny is known to be fussy, expensive, and can't easily be repaired in the US. The only thing I need to figure out is whether to leave the stock liquid to liquid heat exchanger in the loop (it's back near the tranny and engine coolant lines) or let the new liquid to air cooler do all the work. Because I live in a mild climate everything I've read says I should take the stock cooler out of the circuit.
[ October 17, 2005, 03:41 AM: Message edited by: chenobylite ]
The size of the plumbing needs to remain at 1/2" for the cooler. It's a ways up front and back, about 18 feet total. I need the flow.
I'm staying with 1/2" ports on the mount for somewhat the reasons you mentioned: so I can deal with the inlet without having to reduce it. If I used a smaller ported mount as burnkat suggested I'd need a way to reduce from 1/2" to the smaller port size on the inlet. Difficult using the fittings I want to employ and not very elegant.
Yes, I've found several 1/2 NPT mounts. They all come with a 3/4-16 filter stud. I'll replace that with a machined 5/8-18 adapter designed to accept the Fram BP50 or Purolator L30003 bypass spin on. The center of this adapter will have a press fit plug drilled with a restrictor sized to allow your recommended .5 quart/minute through the filter.
No hose barbs or rubber, this rig will be all SS braid, 304 SS seamless rigid tubing, and 37 degree anodized AN fittings. The supply line from the tranny will go to a length of 1/2" tubing that'll run under the car to the right wheel well. There it'll transition to AN-8 SS braided hose to the filter. At the filter it'll tee into it (as it continues on to the cooler) by using an AN-8 tee with 1/2 NPT on the center "run" of the tee. Since the tranny is very low mileage and the cooler is new I've decided to place the filter in the supply line to the cooler and not after it. This will keep the cooler from crapping up as it'll be a stacked plate cooler, not some fin and tube cheapie.
The return line from the cooler will be AN-8 hose back to the wheel well where it'll transition to a second length of 1/2" 304 tubing and go back to the tranny. No connection of this line to the filter of course. At that point the cooling loop will be complete.
The filter outlet port will be reduced using a 1/2" X 1/4" NPT SS bushing and then changed to AN-4 hose. That hose will go to a run of 1/4" 304 seamless tubing that'll end near the tranny pan. Then it's another short AN-4 hose where it'll enter the pan using a straight AN-4 weld-in.
The only extra plumbing over a full flow setup would be the 1/4" line and two hoses running from the filter mount in the wheel well back to the pan. About 5 feet total including the hoses and rigid tubing. As I'll be removing the pan anyway to do a stock screen change I don't consider tig welding in the AN-4 pan fitting any real extra work.
Make sense? That's the plan so far but I'm still open to suggestions. Overkill I know but this isn't my daily driver. It's a toy and any work done on it needs to be a cut above. It needs this though, the tranny is known to be fussy, expensive, and can't easily be repaired in the US. The only thing I need to figure out is whether to leave the stock liquid to liquid heat exchanger in the loop (it's back near the tranny and engine coolant lines) or let the new liquid to air cooler do all the work. Because I live in a mild climate everything I've read says I should take the stock cooler out of the circuit.
[ October 17, 2005, 03:41 AM: Message edited by: chenobylite ]
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It's a toss up on whether you leave the liquid to liquid heat exchanger in the loop. I'd leave it just because I like the thought of the applied physics involved working in the background
. Right now I'm assembling my pieces for a couple of laminar oil coolers that will be then routed via thremostats to air/radiator cooler(s). This should buffer oil temps in a very narrow range.
Thanks Gary.
That's why I'm going to install a tranny temp gauge and try it both ways before I decide what fittings to use in that area. From what I've read the liquid/liquid is more efficient but still undersized. Plus the engine coolant may reheat the tranny fluid back to a higher temp after the liquid/air cooler brought it down. I dunno, we'll see. I know I don't want the fluid too cold though.
I'd sure like to find a tee that has AN-8 on two sides and 3/8 NPT on the other but I'm not even sure such an animal exists. I could cobble something together but I'm trying to avoid that.
[ October 17, 2005, 03:39 PM: Message edited by: chenobylite ]
That's why I'm going to install a tranny temp gauge and try it both ways before I decide what fittings to use in that area. From what I've read the liquid/liquid is more efficient but still undersized. Plus the engine coolant may reheat the tranny fluid back to a higher temp after the liquid/air cooler brought it down. I dunno, we'll see. I know I don't want the fluid too cold though.
I'd sure like to find a tee that has AN-8 on two sides and 3/8 NPT on the other but I'm not even sure such an animal exists. I could cobble something together but I'm trying to avoid that.
[ October 17, 2005, 03:39 PM: Message edited by: chenobylite ]
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Well, except for the added size and cost of the #8 line ..you can just reduce at the other end. It minimises the pieces. Jeg's has all the AN pieces you need in their current catalog. They have an all male #8 Tee and a 3/8 NPT to #8 AN. However you're still adding more cuts and sleeved couplers then you would with a standard 1/2" Tee bushing'd down to 3/8" for your #6 run to the bypass. At some point you're going from NPT to AN threads ...so why not extend the NPT to the 1/2" Tee and then start your braided line from there? Or are you tapping in somewhere up near the front? If so, then, again, extend the NPT fittings to the Tee and then do your #8.
Do you see what I'm saying here? ..or have I confused you ..as I do so many others with my odd way of saying things
That is, your cooler has (probably) a 1/2" to #8 NPT double male fitting. Remove it ..add short nipple and a Tee (or "street" Tee) .. reinstall 1/2" to #8 nipple ...do your thing to the trans. Install 1/2" to 3/8" bushing in open leg of the Tee ..install 3/8" to #6 AN fitting ...voila~
Do you see what I'm saying here? ..or have I confused you ..as I do so many others with my odd way of saying things
That is, your cooler has (probably) a 1/2" to #8 NPT double male fitting. Remove it ..add short nipple and a Tee (or "street" Tee) .. reinstall 1/2" to #8 nipple ...do your thing to the trans. Install 1/2" to 3/8" bushing in open leg of the Tee ..install 3/8" to #6 AN fitting ...voila~
OOoooOOOoo... I think my head just exploded....
Nope, no confusion. You're selling yourself short my friend, I find all of your posts to be clear and well thought out.
Much oliged for the advice and especially the point out on the tee. Turns out it's far more common than I thought. Just that I've been looking at so many fittings and drawing this thimg out so many times my head is also ready to explode.
It finally came together today. Now all I need to do is order the stuff and do the install. It'll be a big job but I hope it'll be worth it.
Much oliged for the advice and especially the point out on the tee. Turns out it's far more common than I thought. Just that I've been looking at so many fittings and drawing this thimg out so many times my head is also ready to explode.
It finally came together today. Now all I need to do is order the stuff and do the install. It'll be a big job but I hope it'll be worth it.
I've had my share of plumbing nightmares too, check this out:
That's a 15 gallon fuel cell feeding two 190lph external pumps flowing through a maze of 6AN braided line. I call it my 700hp grocery getter project.
Basically a 94 Mercury Topaz with 2 Ford Taurus SHO V6 drivetrains in it. The beauty of all-wheel drive...lol!
I drew it all out on paper, ordered exactly what I needed and it all went together easily. I even made up some custom AN-to-compression fitting adapters for the fuel filter and where the braided lines join up to the stock hard lines under the car. I'm currently working on the clutch and shifter linkages which are the real nightmare in this project.
That's a 15 gallon fuel cell feeding two 190lph external pumps flowing through a maze of 6AN braided line. I call it my 700hp grocery getter project.
I drew it all out on paper, ordered exactly what I needed and it all went together easily. I even made up some custom AN-to-compression fitting adapters for the fuel filter and where the braided lines join up to the stock hard lines under the car. I'm currently working on the clutch and shifter linkages which are the real nightmare in this project.
Looks good! Man, those 180 degree hose ends are spendy when you get into the larger sizes.
Drawing it all out on paper is the only way to go to get it right. Interesting you should mention AN to compression. I had the same need: I'm installing SS tubing under the car cuz I didn't want a long run of hose but I needed to go to hose at either end of the tubing runs.
McMaster Carr was one option as they had what I needed (they've lots of good stuff) but in the end I found Earl's offers tube to AN adaptors in the size I wanted, both male and female. Cheap too, $7 each. Wish I could say the same about some of the other fittings...
Drawing it all out on paper is the only way to go to get it right. Interesting you should mention AN to compression. I had the same need: I'm installing SS tubing under the car cuz I didn't want a long run of hose but I needed to go to hose at either end of the tubing runs.
McMaster Carr was one option as they had what I needed (they've lots of good stuff) but in the end I found Earl's offers tube to AN adaptors in the size I wanted, both male and female. Cheap too, $7 each. Wish I could say the same about some of the other fittings...
Did you actually get those tube adapters to work? I ordered some and what I got was definitely not a compression fitting. The compression "device" was just a rubber sleeve that loosely held the tube into the adapter. It may have worked for a vacuum line but definitely not for a liquid under pressure. I could pull the tube out of the fitting by hand. Maybe if the tube was flared it would have held together but not with much pressure.
What I ended up doing was I took a male AN fitting and drilled and tapped it for 1/8" NPT threads. Then attached a regular brass compression fitting.
What I ended up doing was I took a male AN fitting and drilled and tapped it for 1/8" NPT threads. Then attached a regular brass compression fitting.
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