Filter change intervals

CarbonSteel · Jun 5, 2013

Originally Posted By: BlueOvalFitter
Originally Posted By: 2010_FX4
IMHO - if you extend your OCI long enough, you will only need to use the filter once as it will used up and should be replaced.

2010_FX4, what OCI do you think I should run the Havoline in my engine to?

Based upon your highway miles, I would start with the maximum recommended OCI by the OEM and extend from there until you hit the limit (test with UOA to know for sure). I know that MS5K will go 10K as will the MC FL-820s on my FX4 so you should at least be able to go to 7.5K as a start with the Havoline. Right?

Jim Allen · Jun 5, 2013

I don't practice oil-but-no-fitler changes. For the most part, I think that if you are changing your oil without changing the filter, you haven't run the oil long enough.

That said, I have studied filtration enough that I wouldn't be afraid to do it under certain circumstances. The ones that come to mind:

1) Short(ish) OCI... say 7.5K or less with a filter rated for a 15K OCI
2) Approximate knowledge of the oil condition of my rig at the end of the OCI I would use. High insols, high oxidation, high metals, visible sludge would all nix a double FCI.
3) A FCI from the filter mfr equal to the FCI I will run (includes OEM FCI).

I'm not afraid of the "dirty" oil in the filter... because there isn't any. It's been filtered to the cleanliness level the rest of the oil will be very soon. And don't assume that the new oil you are installing is sterile clean. If you search my posts from a few years back, you will find some material I presented how how clean, or how not clean, new oil is. Sure, it has lots of additives but it also has contaminants. New oil can actually get CLEANER going thru the oil filter.

HTSS_TR · Jun 5, 2013

Originally Posted By: Jim Allen
I don't practice oil-but-no-fitler changes. For the most part, I think that if you are changing your oil without changing the filter, you haven't run the oil long enough.

My LS400 OCI with dino is 6-8k/6mo and FCI is 12mo, with synthetic the OCI is 12-15k/12mo and same FCI.

Conventional oil up to 7-8k is more than enough for me without doing UOA.

Jim Allen · Jun 5, 2013

Might be true for you the way you operate but have you ever UOA'ed to get a snapshot of your oil at 8K? We've had more than a couple of good 10K UOAs here on mineral. I'm close to the end of a 15K run (with bypass). Might be worth looking into if you haven't.

But again, I was speaking generally up above, mainly referring to the 5K folks, and strongly believe its true.

All that said, though, if I had a good reason to do it, and the circumstances were right, I wouldn't be afraid of running a filter for a second interval.

HTSS_TR · Jun 5, 2013

No, I never done UOA for any of my cars. For the price I paid for conventional oil on sale at less than $1/qt and some time FAR, 6-8k OCI is more than good ROI. Since the oil filter of the LS400 is a little difficult to change and that I was lazy, I changed it once a year even with OCOD. The "High End" filters that car ever had were Bosch Premium and Motorcraft.

In a clean engine, any oil filter can easily do 12-15k miles even the infamous OCOD. I don't see the need for $10-15 synthetic oil filters. The filter manufactures want people to buy their expensive filters mainly because of higher profit.

Of the 2 filters, air and oil, I think a high quality air filter is more importance, but since it can be used for more than 50-60k miles, the up front cost for high quality air filter paid off over its life time.

EType · Jun 5, 2013

Yes filters are designed for worst case scenarios so clean engines, highway cruising do not push a filter at all.

On the other hand, we see our fair share of defective filters on BITOG so maybe its prudent to change spin on filters. One could easily visually inspect a top mounted cartridge filter, but you don't know what is going on inside a spin on filter.

I agree with you on air filters. I can't see to find good comparative information on air filters. Do you have any recommendations?

BlueOvalFitter · Jun 5, 2013

Air filter change every 12-15K miles, or hold it up in the air and see if sunshine passes through. It's not scientific but it works.
Every OCI gets a new oil filter.
And, after seeing the UOA 2010_FX4 has done on his F150 with a MC oil filter I feel safe up to 7.5K OCIs with my MC filter and conventional 5W30 oil.

HTSS_TR · Jun 5, 2013

Originally Posted By: EType
Yes filters are designed for worst case scenarios so clean engines, highway cruising do not push a filter at all.

On the other hand, we see our fair share of defective filters on BITOG so maybe its prudent to change spin on filters. One could easily visually inspect a top mounted cartridge filter, but you don't know what is going on inside a spin on filter.

I agree with you on air filters. I can't see to find good comparative information on air filters. Do you have any recommendations?

For domestic and Japanese vehicles I stay with OEM air filters, for German vehicles any OE manufacture such as Mann, Mahle ... or OEM are good for up to 50-60k miles or more.

rrounds · Jun 5, 2013

I go 15k miles on my filter for my S2000. 7.5k miles change the oil and then in another 7.5k miles I change the oil and filter(B7042 or B202). With this filter I put in 6 qt's with oil filter change.
Have over 89k miles on it now(in 2 1/2 years) and my UOA's are very good for this engine.

LScowboy · Jun 6, 2013

would you pour in a quart of nasty used oil in with your 4 qts. of clean oil when you do an oil change, because that's what you are doing!

BlueOvalFitter · Jun 6, 2013

Originally Posted By: LScowboy
would you pour in a quart of nasty used oil in with your 4 qts. of clean oil when you do an oil change, because that's what you are doing!

+1

Hokiefyd · Jun 6, 2013

Originally Posted By: BlueOvalFitter
And, after seeing the UOA 2010_FX4 has done on his F150 with a MC oil filter I feel safe up to 7.5K OCIs with my MC filter and conventional 5W30 oil.

If you're going 7,500 miles with a MC filter, I would absolutely change that at every oil change.

7,500 miles on one filter is, as you know of course, the same as using the same filter on two 3,750 mile runs. It's the miles that count.

Glad to see that you're going to start using the filter for closer to its expected life.

BlueOvalFitter · Jun 6, 2013

Originally Posted By: Hokiefyd
Originally Posted By: BlueOvalFitter
And, after seeing the UOA 2010_FX4 has done on his F150 with a MC oil filter I feel safe up to 7.5K OCIs with my MC filter and conventional 5W30 oil.

If you're going 7,500 miles with a MC filter, I would absolutely change that at every oil change.

7,500 miles on one filter is, as you know of course, the same as using the same filter on two 3,750 mile runs. It's the miles that count.

Glad to see that you're going to start using the filter for closer to its expected life.

Thank You Sir. Common sense prevails.

Spector · Jun 6, 2013

Originally Posted By: edwardh1
every other. Nissan manual 1999 say that.

odd no one has ever done any research/testing on this- other than iffy lube marketing people hee hee

As I have said many times on this forum I did my own test a few years ago, two 12,000 miles OCI using Amsoil 0W30 and Napa Gold filters. On one I changed the filter half way through the OCI and the second let the filter go the distance. UOA done after each 12,000 mile interval. The UOA were just about the same. so going 2 OCI on the same filter would be supported by my unscientific test.

surfstar · Jun 6, 2013

Originally Posted By: BlueOvalFitter
Originally Posted By: LScowboy
would you pour in a quart of nasty used oil in with your 4 qts. of clean oil when you do an oil change, because that's what you are doing!

+1

1) You can't get all of the old oil out anyways (filter or no)
2) It has been proven that wear is higher with fresh oil following a change vs later in the OCI
3) Most filters hold 6oz or less if the sump is 5qts or smaller
4) New oil can have contaminants and that 'used' stuff in your filter may actually be cleaner, particulate-wise
5) It saves money, resources, landfill space, ...
6) Engines do not shed metals like they used to - filters do not 'get plugged' during normal OCIs

I've been converted within the last year.

BlueOvalFitter · Jun 6, 2013

Originally Posted By: surfstar
Originally Posted By: BlueOvalFitter
Originally Posted By: LScowboy
would you pour in a quart of nasty used oil in with your 4 qts. of clean oil when you do an oil change, because that's what you are doing!

+1

1) You can't get all of the old oil out anyways (filter or no)
2) It has been proven that wear is higher with fresh oil following a change vs later in the OCI
3) Most filters hold 6oz or less if the sump is 5qts or smaller
4) New oil can have contaminants and that 'used' stuff in your filter may actually be cleaner, particulate-wise
5) It saves money, resources, landfill space, ...
6) Engines do not shed metals like they used to - filters do not 'get plugged' during normal OCIs

I've been converted within the last year.

"One Filter, One OCI!" ALWAYS, EVERYTIME!
I respect your choice, respect mine.

gfh77665 · Jun 6, 2013

Originally Posted By: LScowboy
would you pour in a quart of nasty used oil in with your 4 qts. of clean oil when you do an oil change, because that's what you are doing!

No way a filter holds 1 full qt. of oil. No way.

LScowboy · Jun 6, 2013

Originally Posted By: gfh77665
Originally Posted By: LScowboy
would you pour in a quart of nasty used oil in with your 4 qts. of clean oil when you do an oil change, because that's what you are doing!

No way a filter holds 1 full qt. of oil. No way.

actually, some filters hold MORE than a quart of oil, I recently posted pics of one that holds 40 oz. (although most hold more like a pint or even less, but you get the point)

LScowboy · Jun 6, 2013

Originally Posted By: surfstar
2) It has been proven that wear is higher with fresh oil following a change vs later in the OCI

that's ridiculous

Quote:
4) New oil can have contaminants and that 'used' stuff in your filter may actually be cleaner, particulate-wise

that's beyond ridiculous, if we are referring to major brands and not "sleazy convenience store oil" - Pennzoil, Mobil, Castrol, Quaker State, Valvoline, etc. are filtered to a crazy degree, my bottled spring water I am drinking right now likely has more particulate than these high line oils, and used motor oil does by many times over. In fact, it is particulate that is responsible for most of the opacity and dark color of used oil. Black carbon is a particulate!

surfstar · Jun 6, 2013

Originally Posted By: LScowboy
Originally Posted By: surfstar

2) It has been proven that wear is higher with fresh oil following a change vs later in the OCI

that's ridiculous

Quote:

4) New oil can have contaminants and that 'used' stuff in your filter may actually be cleaner, particulate-wise

that's beyond ridiculous,

There is data that prove both.

Is science 'ridiculous'?

https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/posts/2087109/

https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/posts/2087109/

https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/pictures-of-whats-in-new-oil.8308/

https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/new-mobil-1r-particle-count-results.67197/

https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/new-mobil-1r-particle-count-results.67197/

Filter change intervals

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