Fighting HOA - anyone have any luck?

Status
Not open for further replies.
36.gif
All of this arguing is the exact reason I won't live under one. Regardless of who is right, or what HOAs can or can't do, the *CORRECT* answer is this:

If you aren't under one, you wouldn't have to ask these questions, make these analogies, or ask if you can change your oil or paint your garage door yellow. You have the freedom to do as you wish.

Paying someone (HOA dues) to *supposedly* keep your home's value decent seems kind of ironic, does it not? We've been doing without them for thousands of years...
 
Originally Posted by GMBoy
You chose an HOA so good luck there. You agreed to everything they are doing when you signed the dotted line. I will never live in one, I enjoy my FREEDOM.

You have no freedom, you have to live under Federal, State, City and County rules and laws.
However people who live in a community can create an HOA which is much more in touch with the residents then all the above because the HOA is the residents.

Well, at least people now get the "idea" the people who live in an HOA and the people who dont.
Just keep in mind, any community with an HOA, YOU, THE HOMEOWNER is part of the HOA.

Oh and EXACTLY, the comments above mine -
He is right, Being I have an HOA I NEVER have to worry about living next to a house with a purple, pink or yellow garage door.
I dont have to worry about my neighbors not cutting their grass, parking their cars on their lawns, parking a semi truck in their yard, putting a boat, trailer or motorhome in their driveway, letting their trees, shrubs and garden get overgrown, letting their siding get dirty and covered with slime ...

I just LOVE IT and its good that others who want to live like that, choose to live elsewhere. (nothing wrong with that at all) I have the freedom to not live near homes like I mention above.

That is whats great about America, your freedom to choose. :eek:) where and how to live - Peace ...
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted by Wolf359
Originally Posted by zorobabel
Originally Posted by Wolf359

The Nazi's were out to destroy the communists as they also blamed them for all their problems. So either you're a communist or a Nazi, not both. This isn't quantum mechanics where you're in superposition and you can be both at the same time, you can only be one ideology at a time, especially one that's diametrically opposite, that's like Jewish Muslims or Islamic Christians.

I believe you are wrong. Try to think on this subject for yourself.


I believe you are the one that's wrong.

Do you know your WWII history? Hitler's Mein Kampf even said he was going to destroy the communists. Stalin knew it, but was hoping that it wouldn't be for a while.

After the first world war, there was a lot of instability in Germany and at the time there were a few attempts by communists to overthrow the government. Hence the blaming of Germany's problems on communists and other groups.

"You only have to kick in the door and the whole rotten structure will come crashing down." Adolf Hitler, June 1941.



My two cents.

IIRC due to the economic restrictions put in place by the Treaty of Versailles post-WW1 Germany was on the verge of a civil war between the Communists, whose party leaders happened to be Jewish, and the Nazis. The german govt was incapable of fighting both so it chose to align itself with the Nazis thinking they could control them.
 
Originally Posted by alarmguy
Oh and EXACTLY, the comments above mine -
He is right, Being I have an HOA I NEVER have to worry about living next to a house with a purple, pink or yellow garage door.
I dont have to worry about my neighbors not cutting their grass, parking their cars on their lawns, parking a semi truck in their yard, putting a boat, trailer or motorhome in their driveway, letting their trees, shrubs and garden get overgrown, letting their siding get dirty and covered with slime ...

...I have the freedom to not live near homes like I mention above.
Listen to yourself. Your entire argument is centered around what other people are doing with THEIR OWN property. What business is it of yours? If it's not violating any laws or causing physical harm to you or others, it's not your place to think you have ANY say in their business. But you have fun PAYING for others to be an obnoxious, nosy neighbor on your behalf
smirk2.gif
. I hope HOAs including yours start enforcing what kind of vehicles you can and can't have sitting in your own driveway. You know, curb appeal... makes home values go up.
Originally Posted by alarmguy
You have no freedom, you have to live under Federal, State, City and County rules and laws.
And none of the above state that I can't paint my garage door yellow, dictate how I can build my house (that's right, there's still plenty of areas like mine where there is ZERO building code enforcement
cool.gif
) or state that my neighbors have any authority over what I can and can't do with/to MY own property.
 
Originally Posted by Wolf359
Originally Posted by zorobabel
Originally Posted by Wolf359

The Nazi's were out to destroy the communists as they also blamed them for all their problems. So either you're a communist or a Nazi, not both. This isn't quantum mechanics where you're in superposition and you can be both at the same time, you can only be one ideology at a time, especially one that's diametrically opposite, that's like Jewish Muslims or Islamic Christians.

I believe you are wrong. Try to think on this subject for yourself.


I believe you are the one that's wrong.

Do you know your WWII history? Hitler's Mein Kampf even said he was going to destroy the communists. Stalin knew it, but was hoping that it wouldn't be for a while.

After the first world war, there was a lot of instability in Germany and at the time there were a few attempts by communists to overthrow the government. Hence the blaming of Germany's problems on communists and other groups.

"You only have to kick in the door and the whole rotten structure will come crashing down." Adolf Hitler, June 1941.

I know my WWII history. Left and right wing politics is just labelling. Because the parties ended up in conflict, propaganda created the antagonistic, ideological angle. The closest thing to communists were nazis, both were totalitarian socialists, that acted in a very similar manner. Same goes for the judaic religions.
 
Originally Posted by BMWTurboDzl
Originally Posted by Wolf359
Originally Posted by zorobabel
Originally Posted by Wolf359

The Nazi's were out to destroy the communists as they also blamed them for all their problems. So either you're a communist or a Nazi, not both. This isn't quantum mechanics where you're in superposition and you can be both at the same time, you can only be one ideology at a time, especially one that's diametrically opposite, that's like Jewish Muslims or Islamic Christians.

I believe you are wrong. Try to think on this subject for yourself.


I believe you are the one that's wrong.

Do you know your WWII history? Hitler's Mein Kampf even said he was going to destroy the communists. Stalin knew it, but was hoping that it wouldn't be for a while.

After the first world war, there was a lot of instability in Germany and at the time there were a few attempts by communists to overthrow the government. Hence the blaming of Germany's problems on communists and other groups.

"You only have to kick in the door and the whole rotten structure will come crashing down." Adolf Hitler, June 1941.



My two cents.

IIRC due to the economic restrictions put in place by the Treaty of Versailles post-WW1 Germany was on the verge of a civil war between the Communists, whose party leaders happened to be Jewish, and the Nazis. The german govt was incapable of fighting both so it chose to align itself with the Nazis thinking they could control them.


There were many factions at the time. The Nazi's were small initially and grew in size as economic conditions worsened. They actually had a sizable portion of the population on their side, but it was still a minority and not enough to take control of the government. Hitler was appointed chancellor which is the equivalent of a vice president, when Hindenburg died, Hitler basically took over control of the government. Hitler was never voted into power. The invasion of Russia in June 1941 kinda shows you how much the Nazi's hated the communists. If you read the accounts of the war, when they encountered communists officials, they shot them on the spot. There's one account of a Nazi asking someone if he was a a communist commissar and when the guy said, "yes what of it?" he was just shot. So there were no communists Nazi's. Nice bit of derailment on Hoa's isn't it?

I sell lots of condos with HOA boards. Usually they're fine. People read too many horror stories. Been a landlord for 20+ years too, nothing too crazy but I've got a few stories.
 
Originally Posted by alarmguy

I dont have to worry about my neighbors not cutting their grass ... putting a boat, trailer or motorhome in their driveway, letting their trees, shrubs and garden get overgrown,

Oh, the humanity...
 
I'm not sure..but I think I like the WWII "inner thread" better than the HOA "outer thread"....especially if Adolf Eichmann starts mixing with HOA dues.

As Wolf said, I think the vast majority are fine and the "freedom" people are talking about takes on a different spin that will appeal to some people vs. others. Sometimes that can be economic as much as how much a 'robot' you supposedly are for signing on. Lack of "freedom" is not really an indictment if you knowingly sign on to abiding by the CC&Rs and if those same CC&Rs will likely mean more to you than your "freedom" to paint your garage door with elephant dung to make an ossified "art sculpture".

If "freedom" is defined by your ability to park three hogs in front of your front door blocking the sidewalk, play an 800 watt monoblock separates stereo at 120 dB til 1AM, and whatever exception to the rule you can pull out of your heinie...then there probably isn't a lot of "freedom" there if you live in the close confines of a condo or townhouse community. At that point, the adults have to be in charge and that's a kind of "inverse" freedom that things like the CC&Rs take up that won't generally apply to a single family home in the same way. Beyond the hysterics, I've never seen anyone be "nosy" to the extent that's portrayed here in 27 years of being under HOAs...in fact, I've probably been rewarded more by good maintenance programs and committees doing walkthroughs of the exterior than I have some straw man cartoon that's supposedly looking to fine me at random because of something they find. It's probably accurate to say that these threads are usually overly opinionated and under experienced if it doesn't involve an exception to the rule.
 
Originally Posted by tony1679
Originally Posted by alarmguy
Oh and EXACTLY, the comments above mine -
He is right, Being I have an HOA I NEVER have to worry about living next to a house with a purple, pink or yellow garage door.
I dont have to worry about my neighbors not cutting their grass, parking their cars on their lawns, parking a semi truck in their yard, putting a boat, trailer or motorhome in their driveway, letting their trees, shrubs and garden get overgrown, letting their siding get dirty and covered with slime ...

...I have the freedom to not live near homes like I mention above.
Listen to yourself. Your entire argument is centered around what other people are doing with THEIR OWN property. What business is it of yours? If it's not violating any laws or causing physical harm to you or others, it's not your place to think you have ANY say in their business. But you have fun PAYING for others to be an obnoxious, nosy neighbor on your behalf
smirk2.gif
. I hope HOAs including yours start enforcing what kind of vehicles you can and can't have sitting in your own driveway. You know, curb appeal... makes home values go up.


Some already do. I saw one that prohibited some trucks (basically: any 250/2500 or larger) from parking there. Not on the street-in the driveway! That would have basically meant I'd have to rent a car to visit my mother for half the year! (At the time, my only vehicle in the winter was an F-350.)

Quote
Originally Posted by alarmguy
You have no freedom, you have to live under Federal, State, City and County rules and laws.
And none of the above state that I can't paint my garage door yellow, dictate how I can build my house (that's right, there's still plenty of areas like mine where there is ZERO building code enforcement
cool.gif
) or state that my neighbors have any authority over what I can and can't do with/to MY own property.


I want to move there.
 
Originally Posted by alarmguy
Originally Posted by GMBoy
You chose an HOA so good luck there. You agreed to everything they are doing when you signed the dotted line. I will never live in one, I enjoy my FREEDOM.

You have no freedom, you have to live under Federal, State, City and County rules and laws.
However people who live in a community can create an HOA which is much more in touch with the residents then all the above because the HOA is the residents.

Well, at least people now get the "idea" the people who live in an HOA and the people who dont.
Just keep in mind, any community with an HOA, YOU, THE HOMEOWNER is part of the HOA.

Oh and EXACTLY, the comments above mine -
He is right, Being I have an HOA I NEVER have to worry about living next to a house with a purple, pink or yellow garage door.
I dont have to worry about my neighbors not cutting their grass, parking their cars on their lawns, parking a semi truck in their yard, putting a boat, trailer or motorhome in their driveway, letting their trees, shrubs and garden get overgrown, letting their siding get dirty and covered with slime ...

I just LOVE IT and its good that others who want to live like that, choose to live elsewhere. (nothing wrong with that at all) I have the freedom to not live near homes like I mention above.

That is whats great about America, your freedom to choose. :eek:) where and how to live - Peace ...


You do realize that just because you enjoy your restriction does not mean you have freedom, right?

There were folks who enjoyed the aforementioned communism and facism. Didn't mean they had "freedom".
 
Originally Posted by Jarlaxle
I want to move there.

Come on down. Land is cheap and homes are probably a fraction of the cost of yours. $250K buys A LOT here. Bonus, if there's more people like you here, that means it's that much less likely Mr. alarmguy will be my neighbor. Besides, we don't need alarms here...
 
Originally Posted by DoubleWasp
You do realize that just because you enjoy your restriction does not mean you have freedom, right?

There were folks who enjoyed the aforementioned communism and facism. Didn't mean they had "freedom".


I'm sure Stalin and Hitler enjoyed it. Did they have freedom?

It might be overrated, not really sure what utopia really has freedom. Even in the US, you're still subject to zoning restrictions, state sanitary codes, health inspectors amid a bunch of other laws. Some towns even ban certain types of dog breeds you can own.
 
Agreed. But let's substitute the word freedom with "greatest range of choice". Now, I might enjoy living somewhere that requires me to do lot of specific things in order to conduct my daily life, but do I have choices? Or have a made a choice that limits my options to make further choices?

I actually did live in an HOA community. No, it wasn't like East Germany. But long story made short is that for the choices I gave up, there was no equivalent return. A lot of that probably had to do with the fact that I could not have cared less what my neighbors were doing.....at all. Some did care what I did.

The end of it for me was when I spent a weekend at my friend's house. He lives 5 minutes away from 3 major highways, multiple corporate headquarters, and one of the largest malls in the nation. In other words, not in the sticks.

Yet, we spent the whole weekend riding quads, riding horses, fishing, and shooting right there on his property. (Actually, we ride horse on the streets too) Knew right then and there I was living life the wrong way.

There's a lot of ways to define freedom. Less so to describe choice. Naturally, we we're still subject to the government laws, but we had a lot more choice than those who selected a more restrictive living environment.

What alarmguy describes is not a range of choice. He's given up the ability to choose so he can participate in telling his neighbors what they can't do.

Where Stalin is concerned, he may have actually enjoyed communism. Hitler definitely didn't enjoy facism. Depending on who you believe, he either ate lead or spent the rest of his life as the most wanted man on Earth.
 
For anyone looking at communism, nazism or any other type of marxist tyrannical model with some sort of envy, please take a look at the millions of lives these models took in EVERY single country this experiment was run in. EVERY SINGLE one of them! Think about that before speaking of "freedoms" these models provide.
 
Originally Posted by KrisZ
For anyone looking at communism, nazism or any other type of marxist tyrannical model with some sort of envy, please take a look at the millions of lives these models took in EVERY single country this experiment was run in. EVERY SINGLE one of them! Think about that before speaking of "freedoms" these models provide.

Our experiment this country started well over 200 years ago has it's flaws but it is the best form of government the world has EVER seen period . The only limitations a person has in America is what one puts on themselves .
 
Originally Posted by KrisZ
For anyone looking at communism, nazism or any other type of marxist tyrannical model with some sort of envy, please take a look at the millions of lives these models took in EVERY single country this experiment was run in. EVERY SINGLE one of them! Think about that before speaking of "freedoms" these models provide.


I doubt if most people are. Those that do are usually looking at these models with Rose colored glasses, and assuming they would be of the elite, and not one of the majority who were trampled under these systems. Would they be? Not very likely.

There's also a shocking neglect of the fact that these systems ended in apocalyptic failure because the people who witnessed it firsthand in the period couldn't run fast enough away from these sorry systems.

It's alot like those who preach the desire to live in a "survival of the fittest" environment. They assume they will be on top, rather than a victim.

Or the warmongers who assume they'd be Rambo, rather than a name on the KIA/MIA list.

All of the above fantasies are not freedom fantasies so much as they are power fantasies.

Our system is the best system so far mostly because of stability, credibility, and a lack of tightly defined roles/castes as much as it is the leading compromise of freedom.

If I'm a homeless man, born to a family of uneducated laborers and I somehow come up with an idea to get rich and build myself a giant mansion, I have no tangible "gatekeepers" to contend with, and no truly valid thugs who could separate me from my possessions with impunity.

This how Contemporary American Capitalism (not to be mistaken for True Capitalism) has succeeded where even capitalism itself has failed other nations.

If one asks, "How do I win?", there is actually an answer.
 
Originally Posted by KrisZ
For anyone looking at communism, nazism or any other type of marxist tyrannical model with some sort of envy, please take a look at the millions of lives these models took in EVERY single country this experiment was run in. EVERY SINGLE one of them! Think about that before speaking of "freedoms" these models provide.



34.gif
 
Originally Posted by Reddy45
Originally Posted by KrisZ
For anyone looking at communism, nazism or any other type of marxist tyrannical model with some sort of envy, please take a look at the millions of lives these models took in EVERY single country this experiment was run in. EVERY SINGLE one of them! Think about that before speaking of "freedoms" these models provide.



34.gif



A good point. But keep in mind that China is a communist country. Under Mao it was pretty bad, now not as bad as before and they're the world's second largest economy.

For US history, a good percentage of the population died during the civil war which you could say was the result of a difference of opinion in the government.
 
[censored]...only here could Gladys Kravitz turn into a member of the Politburo...and a misguided definition of "freedom" in micro vs, macro terms somehow tell me why HOAs are good, bad, or indifferent. Anyone who joins them are either robots, don't value their freedom, don't understand what freedom is, or otherwise are supposed to listen to people who've never lived in an HOA as oracles of "freedom" or define the outcomes of "choice" being universal.

Not sure where I'm supposed to put a "Sieg Heil" with that kind of mindset, but I know most of that doesn't apply to my experience. In most cases, what I "chose" in terms of any HOA constrictions wouldn't be that much different from the city laws or if I lived in a single family home not under an HOA. That is, unless I was a total d-bag. I'd love to see a 500 unit condo complex with no CC&Rs or oversight under the guise of "freedom"..that could be a sitcom that would run forever. "Freedom" can be polar opposite of "quality of life" in more than a few circumstances where "choice" comes to bear. Defining it as "lack of choice" 1) may not apply or 2) it may be preferable in economic terms for someone or 3) this "choice" creates a significant enough issue for neighbors who aren't nosy or give three effs who you are...so I'm not sure BITOG is the best resource for this topic.
 
Originally Posted by Vuflanovsky
[censored]...only here could Gladys Kravitz turn into a member of the Politburo...and a misguided definition of "freedom" in micro vs, macro terms somehow tell me why HOAs are good, bad, or indifferent. Anyone who joins them are either robots, don't value their freedom, don't understand what freedom is, or otherwise are supposed to listen to people who've never lived in an HOA as oracles of "freedom" or define the outcomes of "choice" being universal.

Not sure where I'm supposed to put a "Sieg Heil" with that kind of mindset, but I know most of that doesn't apply to my experience. In most cases, what I "chose" in terms of any HOA constrictions wouldn't be that much different from the city laws or if I lived in a single family home not under an HOA. That is, unless I was a total d-bag. I'd love to see a 500 unit condo complex with no CC&Rs or oversight under the guise of "freedom"..that could be a sitcom that would run forever. "Freedom" can be polar opposite of "quality of life" in more than a few circumstances where "choice" comes to bear. Defining it as "lack of choice" 1) may not apply or 2) it may be preferable in economic terms for someone or 3) this "choice" creates a significant enough issue for neighbors who aren't nosy or give three effs who you are...so I'm not sure BITOG is the best resource for this topic.


In keep with the WWII theme, I prefer jack booted thugs from the Gestapo instead of the Politburo but I think Stalin has a higher body count than Hitler so it's hard to say. But maybe Hitler had more people killed per year although Stalin killed more over a longer period of time.

And for the record, I've sold many condos and most people who buy condos never express any kind of the extreme hated some people have mentioned here. Even if you rent, you still have to adhere to the rules of the lease. The leases I use are great, there's actually a clause in there that says the landlord can change the rules at any time. And that's a standard phrase as we just use the leases that the local realtor association uses for the area.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

Zee09
  • Locked
Possibly Defunct HOA Options
2
Replies
33
Views
2K
M56959
Thermo1223
HOA Woes
2 3 4
Replies
64
Views
3K
64bawagon
Donald
Latest HOA story
2
Replies
24
Views
1K
TiGeo
mrsilv04
Ordered an item through Amazon, shipped direct from China...but with "free returns". How does that work?
2
Replies
21
Views
1K
John Galt
redhat
Dealership Chain won't do Anything if over 10yr/200k
2 3 4
Replies
70
Views
2K
redhat
Back
Top