Or the .25-06.
Federal is introducing a new cartridge
- Thread starter skyactiv
- Start date
Or the .25-06.
You also have to realize that the popularity of the 6.5 Creedmore doesn't come so much from the round itself being, "new". (As was mentioned the 6.5 X 55 had similar ballistics decades ago). But rather from the high sectional density of the 6.5 bullet itself. It hangs on to velocity much like a young blond to a old rich guy.
To achieve similar sectional density in a .30 caliber bullet, you have to get into bullets in the 240 gr. weight range, like the .30 caliber 240 Gr. Sierra Matchking. And those will barely stabilize in a 1:10" twist barrel. With 1:8" twist being ideal. And that comes with A LOT of added recoil, to push them out to 1,000+yards. Not to mention much more powder, and the added barrel erosion that comes with burning it.
Where as the 6.5 Creedmore comes off the shelf with those desirable ballistics, without all of the pounding recoil. And with very accurate factory loaded ammunition available, that can go right from the box, into the chamber, with almost phenomenal accuracy. I've seen 6.5's that you almost have to try to make them shoot bad.
To achieve similar sectional density in a .30 caliber bullet, you have to get into bullets in the 240 gr. weight range, like the .30 caliber 240 Gr. Sierra Matchking. And those will barely stabilize in a 1:10" twist barrel. With 1:8" twist being ideal. And that comes with A LOT of added recoil, to push them out to 1,000+yards. Not to mention much more powder, and the added barrel erosion that comes with burning it.
Where as the 6.5 Creedmore comes off the shelf with those desirable ballistics, without all of the pounding recoil. And with very accurate factory loaded ammunition available, that can go right from the box, into the chamber, with almost phenomenal accuracy. I've seen 6.5's that you almost have to try to make them shoot bad.
- Joined
- Nov 2, 2021
- Messages
- 1,116
Just keep reinventing the wheel. It’s cool but for self defense I don’t need velocity and mag capacity. Isn’t that what gets the cops in trouble 3 mags later and lucky if 5 rounds hit the perp. My .380 holds 6+1 extension mag 7+1, why would I need more capacity & What defies self defense in court?
Ballistics are similar, but better bullets these days enhance that and the 6.5 CM can be used in semi-autos based on the .308/7.62 which really broadens its appeal.
I’m building a 6.5 CM on an Aero Precision upper and lower.
One of the local police depts, go to the gun club I go to and the guys have some kind of Ar10 high end type in 6.5 CM and that thing is very accurate One day I was BSing with then and they were making nice hits messing around at the 1000 yards+ targets.
Because if you miss, the muzzle blast will still kill the enemy!
That's the rule of 3's. 3 rounds, 3 seconds, at no more than 3 yards. That's also very old information, prior to 2007. One need only look at how many rounds cops fire into a dedicated attacker before the attacker stops (often 10). One also must recognize that most violent criminals now operate in packs of 4.
Today, it's good to know that experts are only 10% more accurate than novices when it comes to hits. It is also good to know that police hit ratios consistently remain between 18% (actual gunfight) and 37% (close range shooting).
It is utter nonsense to hobble oneself with a limited number of rounds. Period.
I was attacked by 9 and had 25 rounds available. Do you think a six-shooter is somehow sufficient?
Just because they fire all those rounds doesn't mean they're necessary. As I mentioned, I've seen people dump 30+ rounds downrange in IDPA drills, and fail to finish it, when it can be completed with 9 rounds if you know how to shoot. Extra rounds fired that miss the target always go somewhere, and police are better protected from liability than armed civilians.
Sure all else equal, more is better. But all else is not equal. Having more rounds is a tradeoff for using a smaller less effective cartridge, or having bigger, heavier, less ergonomic gun. I could say that it's nonsense to hobble oneself with a smaller less effective cartridge, or to carry high capacity mags to compensate for lack of training. But instead I'll say that I feel comfortable with the 6+1 .45 that I carry, knowing it's proven itself through so many classes and drills reliably over the years.
You say the rule of 3s is "very old information prior to 2007" yet this is an age-old debate that will never end as equally well informed professionals continue to disagree on all sides.
- Joined
- Nov 2, 2021
- Messages
- 1,116
Rules of 3, multiple attackers etc no attack is textbook and I haven’t heard of a civilian having a gun duel with his/her assailant(s). Let’s just hope we never come down to needing to pull our firearms in the need of self defense.
Shot placement.
When I first read about this cartridge I was kind of "meh, doomed to fail". Then I got into a conversation with a co-worker and see now there is some real potential. A Sig 365 that's 14 or 15 +1 maybe. An LCP Max sized gun with a 12+1 capacity? Interesting possibilities.
When you look at the flip side, (which is running out for whatever reason), I would say, yeah they are necessary. There is no upside to running out of ammunition in the middle of a gunfight.
On the other hand, I’ve got all those, and .38 special, .22 WMR, .38 Super, .45 Colt, and I still plan to get a .41 magnum. .44 magnum, a .327 Federal, and hmmm…maybe one of these, too…
Now, if we’re talking strictly carry, OK, I’ll probably limit myself to 9mm, .40 S&W, .45 ACP, and 10mm.
Or maybe not…
.41Mag is really a great shooting cartridge. I wish it would catch on........but a rimmed cartridge is always going to be limited. Sure decent recoil, but not harsh even in hot loads. I find 44Mag shoots with a harsh recoil, just perception I suppose, but even in my lever rifles, .44Mag perceived recoil is worse than rifle cartridges. Just my 0.02$
The .38 Special has been planting bad guys in the ground since it went smokeless in 1900, and has done better since the advent of +P and improved bullet designs. The 9x19 Parabellum planted lots of folks in the ground since 1904, the .45 ACP the same since 1911, and the .357 Magnum since 1935. For better or for worse, all four of these rounds have proven themselves as the best of the low end power spectrum. ALL handgun rounds are puny manstoppers ( compared to rifle and shotgun rounds ), and all have about the same failure to stop rate (give or take a few percentage points). You carry what you're comfortable with, and can shoot the best with.
No hype, no rationalizations, no nonsense - handgun calibers will work assuming you get three things right: shot placement, shot placement, shot placement.
No hype, no rationalizations, no nonsense - handgun calibers will work assuming you get three things right: shot placement, shot placement, shot placement.
Similar threads
