Factory Fill

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Yup

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How can anyone, at least for a Honda, advocate changing factory fill early given words directly from Hondas owner site?

Your Honda engine was delivered with an oil that is specially formulated for new engines that have not yet developed their "natural" wear patterns and may contain minute particles from the manufacturing process.

American Honda strongly recommends this special oil be left in the engine long enough for these wear patterns to develop, usually until the first maintenance interval specified in your Owner's Manual, based on your specific driving conditions.
 
How early is early? I could see changing it out at 5000 miles instead of waiting 10,000 miles but not sooner than that.
 
Im sure the wear patterns will develop sooner or later anyway. 5000 miles is a good first oil change.. Engines are built much better these days.
 
I don't know about the rest of the engine, but as a counter point (and just out of interest), this Castrol Engineer says : cam and tappets should be run-in by 250 to 500 km

I have posted this link before in the Interesting Articles section
http://www.jaguarhunter.org.au/Technical_Pages/Modern_Engine_Oils.htm

I had a Honda motorcycle, and I changed out the FF at 1000 km and never had any problem in the next 10 years of riding. Again, not sure if it's the same thing, an older Honda bike compared to a newer Honda car, just saying that's all.

The owner should do whatever makes them happy.
 
Engine machining processes are much cleaner and controlled than in "the old days". Oils are much better now than then, too, as are oil filters. Therefore, many of the old "reasons" to do a 1000 mile first oil change just are not there any more (and haven't been for quite some time). Many of the newer engines, built in highly-computerized plants, are much cleaner builds (from machining operations' grit) than in prior times.

5K or 10K first oil change. Either should be fine, I suspect. Or use the "oil change" indicator, if equipped.
 
Yes, for new cars, I agree that the oil should stay in there, although my Jeep dealer voids the warranty if you don't change at 1000 km. (It's usually about 1800 for me, as it is 700 from my house)

Rebuilt engines are another story. As I don't have more than my garage, I change out at about 50 km, then 1000 or so, then normal.

This is the factory fill of a Hyundai at 1000 km
BIGbreakin.jpg.jpg
 
Leave factory fill in for at least 3,000 but I always do 5,000. You're obsessing over nothing & wasting money/oil when you change factory fill early. Not to mention, often factory fills have special break in additives so you're removing those before they should be removed. 5,000 mile factory fill oil change for me.
 
Yeah, it would be nice to know if there's really anything in there besides extra moly. I gritted my teeth and kept mine in longer than I normally would (changed it at 3k miles) on my 2013 Accord and it's doing just fine. I even had one of the service writers at the dealership tell me the original oil cost hundreds of dollars (very special!) so I really needed to keep it in there till the MM told me to change it!
laugh.gif
 
Originally Posted By: Yup
How can anyone, at least for a Honda, advocate changing factory fill early given words directly from Hondas owner site?

Your Honda engine was delivered with an oil that is specially formulated for new engines that have not yet developed their "natural" wear patterns and may contain minute particles from the manufacturing process.

American Honda strongly recommends this special oil be left in the engine long enough for these wear patterns to develop, usually until the first maintenance interval specified in your Owner's Manual, based on your specific driving conditions.


How can anyone? Because many people think they know better. It's really that simple.

But do they? I highly doubt it. Being a Honda owner myself, I am guilty of changing the FF out a bit early. I did mine at 5000 to 6000 miles. Why? While I believe that Honda's engineers see value in leaving the assembly lube (moly) impregnated oil in for a longer time, I think it's easier for Honda to just tell everyone to follow the maintenance minder instead of giving them a specific mileage. They probably figure if they say to change it out earlier than the OLM...then people will start changing even sooner....like 500 miles or something.
 
Honda is very adamant about leaving factory fill for full OCI for many vehicles for more than 15 years now.

They are the largest engine builder in the world, each year they produce more than 30 million engines for all kind of usage, from motorcycle to car to lawn mower and now jet engine. They know what they are doing.
 
All my personal cars have been pre-owned before I owned them so I don't get to make the decision! I have even bought ex rental cars with who knows what type of maintenance and I have yet to tear an engine apart!

I have noticed that the ex rental cars I have purchased burn no noticeable oil as evidenced by the dipstick. Non rental used cars I've had have been more of a toss up in that regard with oil burning. Why? I'm sure the rentals were beaten day in and day out to redline consistently. Yes, I understand that every engine burns a tiny little bit as by design.
 
Originally Posted By: HTSS_TR
Honda is very adamant about leaving factory fill for full OCI for many vehicles for more than 15 years now.

They are the largest engine builder in the world, each year they produce more than 30 million engines for all kind of usage, from motorcycle to car to lawn mower and now jet engine. They know what they are doing.


I think we can safely assume they do.

Early change of FF is a personal thing, just like a bigger oil filter. Seems better, so nothing's too good for MY car.

But there is no data anywhere supporting it except anecdotal. Every new engine has some debris in it, likely a lot less than even ten years ago. If it was really an issue there would be specific warranty guidelines involved.

And there aren't. So change it early if you must, but there is certainly no need to...
 
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
Originally Posted By: HTSS_TR
Honda is very adamant about leaving factory fill for full OCI for many vehicles for more than 15 years now.

They are the largest engine builder in the world, each year they produce more than 30 million engines for all kind of usage, from motorcycle to car to lawn mower and now jet engine. They know what they are doing.


I think we can safely assume they do.

Early change of FF is a personal thing, just like a bigger oil filter. Seems better, so nothing's too good for MY car.

But there is no data anywhere supporting it except anecdotal. Every new engine has some debris in it, likely a lot less than even ten years ago. If it was really an issue there would be specific warranty guidelines involved.

And there aren't. So change it early if you must, but there is certainly no need to...


Need is subjective when "every new engine has some debris in it"
 
Originally Posted By: widman
Yes, for new cars, I agree that the oil should stay in there, although my Jeep dealer voids the warranty if you don't change at 1000 km. (It's usually about 1800 for me, as it is 700 from my house)

Rebuilt engines are another story. As I don't have more than my garage, I change out at about 50 km, then 1000 or so, then normal.

This is the factory fill of a Hyundai at 1000 km
BIGbreakin.jpg.jpg



All that glitter looks like a good reason to dump the FF as soon as you get home, in my opinion.
 
Originally Posted By: Olas

Need is subjective when "every new engine has some debris in it"


Excuse me, that should be changed to EVERY engine has some debris in it!

Better?
 
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
Originally Posted By: Olas

Need is subjective when "every new engine has some debris in it"


Excuse me, that should be changed to EVERY engine has some debris in it!

Better?


Sorry mate, I weren't having a pop at your grammar. I agree that every engine has some debris but the thread is about the FF, and when you see the picture in this thread that is the only picture, and of FF, it makes sense to dump it ASAP.
Good rings and good filters keep most debris out, but I'm concerned about the glittery metal swarf that you only find in an FF. Or on stripdown and analysis of something that destroyed itself under load.
That is the specific particulate I want out.
 
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