She's a hell of an actress to be able to do that without cracking up.
F-14 Questions Answered - Ask Away
- Thread starter Astro14
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Astro, I remember you mentioning that the F-14 had a type of Hydrazine system to provide backup power to the hydraulic systems in an emergency. From what I've read, when Hydrazine was used in the space program, it was very dangerous and difficult to handle. And the fumes from it were deadly.
As well as being extremely corrosive to most anything it came into contact with. How maintenance intensive was this system? And did it cause any problems aboard the carrier?
As well as being extremely corrosive to most anything it came into contact with. How maintenance intensive was this system? And did it cause any problems aboard the carrier?
Hydrazine was, indeed, dangerous.
But it was only used in the NASA jet that explored the stall/spin characteristics of the airplane.
Knowing that engines stalls were likely; the hydrazine was used to power the backup flight control module (normally electric) to enable the airplane to be controlled should both engines stall and roll back to an RPM where they would not run the hydraulic pumps.
The NASA jet also had a spin parachute between the tails and spin flaps on the nose to aid in recovery.
As I think I mentioned, NASA crashed the jet anyway.
But it was only used in the NASA jet that explored the stall/spin characteristics of the airplane.
Knowing that engines stalls were likely; the hydrazine was used to power the backup flight control module (normally electric) to enable the airplane to be controlled should both engines stall and roll back to an RPM where they would not run the hydraulic pumps.
The NASA jet also had a spin parachute between the tails and spin flaps on the nose to aid in recovery.
As I think I mentioned, NASA crashed the jet anyway.
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The F-16 uses a Hydrazine powered Emergency Power Unit. I never worked on an EPU but was very aware of the dangers of Hydrazine.
https://theaviationist.com/2019/05/...crashes-or-fires-up-the-emergency-power-unit/
https://theaviationist.com/2019/05/...crashes-or-fires-up-the-emergency-power-unit/
In the 1970s, a friend of my brother joined the Navy and flew F-14s. I think his base might have been in Florida. One day, he showed in Maine in his flight suit and told us he just flew in "on a visit."
How does it work in your experience:
1) Do you get assigned a specific plane?
2) Are you only permitted to fly under orders and on a mission, or is there some other arrangement? Let's say you had a lot of rank. Could you go up on a flight whenever you wanted to if you were a senior officer?
Looking back, I assume that my brother's friend was in Maine on a mission, and he came by to visit us when he had time off from that mission.
Pretty dumb questions, I know. I watch too many movies.
How does it work in your experience:
1) Do you get assigned a specific plane?
2) Are you only permitted to fly under orders and on a mission, or is there some other arrangement? Let's say you had a lot of rank. Could you go up on a flight whenever you wanted to if you were a senior officer?
Looking back, I assume that my brother's friend was in Maine on a mission, and he came by to visit us when he had time off from that mission.
Pretty dumb questions, I know. I watch too many movies.
There are better people to answer your questions. But there’s at least one interesting piece of trivia I discovered. There are typically more pilots than planes. And most squadrons have planes where there’s one name or set of names on one side, and another on the other, in order to get everyone’s name on at least one plane.
Well, I would say, since I flew the airplane, served 30 years in the Navy, and I was senior in rank when I retired, that I am as well equipped to answer his question as anybody. Why do you think there would be people who are better than me to answer his question?
OK, first, if he flew the F-14, his base was either Miramar in San Diego, or Oceana in Virginia Beach. Those were the only locations for operational squadrons. Occasionally, F-14 pilots would go fly at test pilot school, in Patuxent River, Maryland, or one of the test evaluation units out on the West Coast.
Edit - they typically wouldn’t have an F-14 for cross country in those assignments. More often there was a simpler and cheaper jet for that purpose.
1. Pilots typically get their name put on an airplane. That is a courtesy, not an assignment. In general in the Navy, the Airwing Commander (CAG) gets his name on the “00” of every squadron. The CO of that squadron gets their name put on the “01” of that squadron. My name was on 211. 11th plane in the squadron because at that time I was the 11th most senior pilot.
I’ve talked about my favorite airplane, and it was the one that had my name on it. But, unlike World War II bomber pilots, you fly whatever aircraft that maintenance assigned to you. That airplane flies anywhere from 2 to 8 times a day depending on the operational tempo of the squadron and whether or not they are at sea. So you’re not the only one flying that jet.
2. You only fly assigned missions. Now, the mission might be loosely defined, and the mission might be to get someone who hasn’t flown in a while, a little bit of stick time, but there will be a mission and it will be on the Flight schedule. You don’t just go grab a jet whenever you feel like it.
Cross country, which is typically done over a weekend so that regular squadron training is least impacted, is a legitimate mission. Airway navigation, or positioning the airplane for a future training mission. For example, I flew an airplane from Virginia Beach, from Oceana, up to Maine to support some developmental testing on the AEGIS radar when the Arleigh Burke class destroyer was new.
I also flew an airplane from Virginia Beach out to Sacramento, California, with the CO of the squadron in my backseat. The mission was partly to get me, the newest pilot in the squadron, some flight time. The CO also had family in the area. A happy coincidence.
Being in senior in rank, and not in the squadron, grants you essentially nothing. Being senior in rank, and in the chain of command of the squadron, grant you some consideration. So, the CAG, will be put on the Flight schedule by a particular squadron whenever the CAG wants it, just as the CO of that squadron will be added to the flight schedule whenever the CO wants.
But here is where the balance comes in. The budget for flight time is limited. A commanding officer who takes a jet up for his own training while ignoring the training of his junior pilots, is a very poor commander, and that sort of thing gets noticed.
That sort of thing has a way of correcting itself when senior officers notice the disproportionate flight time, the disproportionate skills and proficiency.
No commanding officer, under any circumstances, would allow someone unqualified to fly the airplane. So, for example, let’s say that the destroyer squadron Commodore wishes to go for a ride in an F/A-18. He’s gonna have to ask permission from the Admiral to whom he reports. The Admiral would then request that the CAG accommodate the request. Then, one of the squadrons has to be willing to put him in their jet, and the commodore will have to spend at least a couple of days getting qualified in the ejection seat.
That involves a lot of time in the pool in the Navy and in various machines that simulate airplane crashes at sea. It is not easy.
I have given rides to senior officers. I have given rides to Midshipmen. I even gave a ride to an army flight surgeon. A bit of a story, her name was Rhonda Cornum. You can Google her experience during Desert Storm. The three star admiral in charge of all air forces in the Atlantic Fleet thought it would be good for the Navy to give the doc a ride in the F-14. As the request went down through the various layers of command, nobody said no. I was current and qualified, and I took the doc out to an aircraft carrier where she and I got five arrested landings one glorious Saturday afternoon.
Training was accomplished. I got five traps. We didn’t waste the taxpayers money, but that was a very unusual set of circumstances.
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Didn’t want to step on any toes. Especially the most obvious toes on BITOG.
But I’m sure there’s a misconception that because a name (or set of names) is painted on the side, that means it’s exclusive to a particular pilot and non-pilot officer. I’ve also heard of the trick to get different names on either side to get everyone’s name on at least one aircraft, although it’s not clear when that started or if that was universal.
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AI is good at that.
Hi Astro.
I have been watching an interview with a gent called Rob "Z-man" Zetel. He flew Migs with the Red Eagle Squadron. Mig 17, 21 and 23 i believe.
Did you ever train with them? If so, what were your opinions of these airplanes from an F14 pilots perspective?
I apologise if you have already commented on this.
I have been watching an interview with a gent called Rob "Z-man" Zetel. He flew Migs with the Red Eagle Squadron. Mig 17, 21 and 23 i believe.
Did you ever train with them? If so, what were your opinions of these airplanes from an F14 pilots perspective?
I apologise if you have already commented on this.
I know Z-man pretty well. He was a 767 Captain at United and we worked together.
Haven’t read his book. Knew it was coming.
Knew about the MiGs back in the day.
Never faced one.
I think the concept was fantastic. Training against the actual adversary is ideal. The A-4 and F-5 are great presentations but they’re not the real thing.
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Hi Astro.
Thank you for answering.
He does mention at the end of the interview that he went on to fly for United.
If you are interested, the interview is
There are a few of them, the above is the last. The interviewer is a former F16 guy.
Thank you for answering.
He does mention at the end of the interview that he went on to fly for United.
If you are interested, the interview is
There are a few of them, the above is the last. The interviewer is a former F16 guy.
I’ll watch the interview - shoot, I’ll probably buy the book, too - but Z-man isn’t the only pilot I know who flew in the 4477th.Hi Astro.
Fair enough.
No chain gear traps - but a couple of field arrested landings on BAK-12 for various aircraft malfunctions. A hydraulic failure. An engine fire/shutdown. That sort of thing.Ever take a trap on land-based E-5 (chain gear)??
Serious question. Were first traps required on land, before carrier?
(and did you use E-28, or just kind of "simulate" it).
Field carrier landing practice, FCLP, was all touch and go. We flew the Fresnel Optical Landing System, “meatball” to touchdown on a simulated carrier landing area under the observation/supervision* of a Landing Signals Officer, LSO.
There’s no real point in doing a field arrested landing, which takes 1,200 feet or so, to simulate a carrier arrested landing, which takes 200 feet or so. It would be an awkward way to do a full stop landing, tie up the runway for at least 15-30 minutes, and make the field maintenance guys work harder than they already did.
*LSOs in the fleet are charged with the safe and expeditious recovery of aircraft. Part of that safety role includes a detailed debrief and analysis of pilot performance in order to help them improve.
LSOs in training squadrons have that charge, as well as the role of pure instructor - teaching new pilots how to land the jet in which they’re instructing. In my case, while assigned to VF-101, the Fleet Replacement Squadron, or “RAG”, I taught the F-14. I was an LSO, and at one point, I was in charge of the carrier landing phase of instruction in the jet - so, I had the responsibility of training and certifying new pilots in the F-14 as well as training the new LSOs in VF-101.
I spent a great deal of my time at our outlying field, NALF Fentress, which had the simulated carrier landing area, supervising pilots and LSOs. We had an airplane landing about every 45-60 seconds. The field was schedule for 45 minute periods in which a squadron could get four jets ten landings each. Then they would clear out for the next squadron. As the RAG, we had priority, and we scheduled two 45 minute periods every night we were working up new pilots for carrier qualification, CQ. When things were busy, when the RAG was preparing for CQ and a couple of other squadrons were preparing for CQ, Fentress was operating from sunset to sunrise. Lots of 02:30 FCLP periods in my career. Not fun.
Fentress had BAK-12, should an airplane have a problem, but it would be at least an hour to get a tug, move the airplane and set the gear back up. One field arrested landing, then, would cost us 40-50 practice landings. A hugely inefficient construct.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naval_Auxiliary_Landing_Field_Fentress
Flew Hornets too, although I believe he’s indicated that he lost his opportunity to land on a carrier.
And there’s even more interviews.
Astro, you ever fly with or pull duty with Ward Carrol?
