I am just curious about running an oil for an extended oil change interval in a car with a 10 year, 100,000 mile powertrain warranty. If I decide to run Redline or Amsoil for example for extended intervals based on oil analysis and I have engine trouble will they still honor the warranty or will they site extended OCI's as the cause of engine trouble and stick me with the bill.
Extended OCI's and New Car Warranties
- Thread starter srl1104
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If you needlessly provide your dealership with the extended OCI information that will
BTW, I run 8-9,000 OCI's with Amsoil 0w30 and Amsoil filter.
You can't expect them to warranty their product when you don't follow the maintenance schedule. That's why it's called a "Limited Warranty".
I read the same thing on the big rig portion of this site. Most seem to run dino to mfg spec'd OCI and get rid of the vehicle at 500K when warranty is up.
As someone who has gone through having a MFG provide a complete teardown / replacement of heads and gaskets and labor let me tell you what I have to prove;
1. That all services required to date were performed. (ie 7500, 15000, 22500, 30000, etc)
2. Since I did my own services, I took photos, kept receipts, a maint log, UOAs and such.
Prove to them that I did not abuse the engine to cause it to have the issue in front of them (head gaskets leaking coolant into the oil)
They asked for and received copies of the log, receipts, UOAs and photos.
I watched the District (Zone) rep go through and even call headquarters with the UPC codes on the receipts to find out what oil I had used.
They DID require that I followed their manual to the letter. That meant oil TYPE, weight and OCI. (I changed the oil more often then they required)
In the end, $1200 plus rent a car for 2 weeks they paid for. And they did extra work while it was in the shop.
My head gaskets went out at 61k miles. This was in a 1999 car that was just a little over 3 years old. The factory warrenty was 36 months or 3 years whichever comes first.
I was 25 thousand miles out of warrenty. But got them to fix the engine. And the major REASON why they did is because I had followed the manual and did even better.
I'll follow the manual. I will never lie or "fail" or forget to let them know that I did not follow it for a OCI or something.
I have standards. I expect engines to last more than 61k miles and warrenty or not, they are going to have a problem if something fails at that mileage. Since I had all the ducks lined in a row, I expect and received service.
Bill
1. That all services required to date were performed. (ie 7500, 15000, 22500, 30000, etc)
2. Since I did my own services, I took photos, kept receipts, a maint log, UOAs and such.
Prove to them that I did not abuse the engine to cause it to have the issue in front of them (head gaskets leaking coolant into the oil)
They asked for and received copies of the log, receipts, UOAs and photos.
I watched the District (Zone) rep go through and even call headquarters with the UPC codes on the receipts to find out what oil I had used.
They DID require that I followed their manual to the letter. That meant oil TYPE, weight and OCI. (I changed the oil more often then they required)
In the end, $1200 plus rent a car for 2 weeks they paid for. And they did extra work while it was in the shop.
My head gaskets went out at 61k miles. This was in a 1999 car that was just a little over 3 years old. The factory warrenty was 36 months or 3 years whichever comes first.
I was 25 thousand miles out of warrenty. But got them to fix the engine. And the major REASON why they did is because I had followed the manual and did even better.
I'll follow the manual. I will never lie or "fail" or forget to let them know that I did not follow it for a OCI or something.
I have standards. I expect engines to last more than 61k miles and warrenty or not, they are going to have a problem if something fails at that mileage. Since I had all the ducks lined in a row, I expect and received service.
Bill
I bought two new vehicles a year ago. An '06 chrysler town and country with the 3.3, and the Jeep Liberty with a 3.7. They pressured me over and over to buy that extended warranty. "We will even give you three years of free oil changes" they said. First of all, all extended warranties are just not worth it. You are better off taking that money you would have spent on the extension and putting it in the bank for future repairs and collect the interest. Second of all, I did not want them changing my oil as I knew I would be using synthetic. BUT, back to your question....Document document. document: keep all receipts, and did I mention document? Do not go over the OCI as stated by the manufacturer...
The Toyota dealer offered me the extended warranty for a Prius at $2,800. I think it was 7 years 100k miles. We bought the same warranty from a dealer that participated in a Prius forum for a little under $900. I did go back to the dealer with the faxed estimate and they said they would match it. That acutally ----ed me off. They were treating me like sucker bait and I was the one that stepped up and bought a car from them. Guess where I won't go for future service?
I never buy extended warrenty programs (even with cars/trucks I will not use alot) since I've lived a gifted life and never had real issues until my 99.
But my real reason to reply... $2800 to $900!
Glad there is NO mark up there. I knew there was, but that much!
Bill
(and at $900 they are making $$$)
Since you're considering Amsoil, read this http://www.amsoil.com/news/2007_may_warranty.pdf.
Keep your receipts, and UOAs as well, for documentation. Just remember, the manufacturer's OCIs are RECOMMENDATIONS, NOT REQUIREMENTS, and therefore your oil cannot be the sole blame unless it can be proven via lube/part analysis.
This has been beaten to death, as stated above, but don't be afraid of the dealers. Most of them are horribly misinformed and only spout policies to scare consumers and cover their a**.
Keep your receipts, and UOAs as well, for documentation. Just remember, the manufacturer's OCIs are RECOMMENDATIONS, NOT REQUIREMENTS, and therefore your oil cannot be the sole blame unless it can be proven via lube/part analysis.
This has been beaten to death, as stated above, but don't be afraid of the dealers. Most of them are horribly misinformed and only spout policies to scare consumers and cover their a**.
Yeah, but if they turn you down, who do you turn to? If you don't follow their recommendations, you're on thin ice even with a lawyer. A warranty is a two-way street, and you have to do your part to show that you maintained the car per their recommendations to get their warranty service.
So what if your oil is not the sole blame for an engine failure? You want to be partially responsible for a new engine that would have been 100% covered if you had followed the recommended maintenance schedule?
The warranty doesn't last forever. It's cheap insurance to follow the schedule.
The warranty doesn't last forever. It's cheap insurance to follow the schedule.
It is true that you have to keep up your end of the deal as well. However, you are not required to change the oil at the recommended intervals. Unless there was some major sludge, they really would have no reason to blame the oil or your habits. However, running the engine dry is enough reason to blame your habits, but the oil wasn't the fault.
They must prove the oil/habits caused the failure! If they cannot prove it, they cannot void your warranty. If they dump the oil without getting a sample, they cannot claim the oil was at fault as they have nothing to use as evidence. I will contact some of the local dealers and get their input on this, but I'm sure they will not say, with certainty, you will void your warranty with extended OCIs.
Again, this has been beaten to death, as stated above, but don't be afraid of the dealers. Most of them are horribly misinformed and only spout policies to scare consumers and cover their a**.
They must prove the oil/habits caused the failure! If they cannot prove it, they cannot void your warranty. If they dump the oil without getting a sample, they cannot claim the oil was at fault as they have nothing to use as evidence. I will contact some of the local dealers and get their input on this, but I'm sure they will not say, with certainty, you will void your warranty with extended OCIs.
Again, this has been beaten to death, as stated above, but don't be afraid of the dealers. Most of them are horribly misinformed and only spout policies to scare consumers and cover their a**.
Some intervals under warrenty are between 5000-7500 miles anyway so if you want to use amsoil their xl line work great with proven uoas here.
The MFG state in their manuals (and if you want the warrenty) that you agree that you will follow their OCI with the type of oil that they state.
The warrenty is a agreement . IF you follow their manual, they WILL repair your broken vehicle. If you DO NOT , they DO NOT have to fix it.
True, they have to prove your not following the manual cause the problem. You have to prove your not following the manual did not cause the problem.
In come the Lawyers.
You pay for yours, they pay for theirs.
Why deal with it?
If you don't want a warrenty, don't follow the manual.
Buy a used car.
I've received warrenty service OUTSIDE the warrenty period. I am SURE that if I said the heck with the MFG requirements, they would have told me to pound sand..
I'll follow the manual and get the warrenty I paid for with the new car purchase (if I need it)
Its not like they are telling you to have your oil changed every 1k at their dealership.
Just follow the manual, keep receipts and records and sleep at night!
And enjoy the new ride!
Take care, Bill
The warrenty is a agreement . IF you follow their manual, they WILL repair your broken vehicle. If you DO NOT , they DO NOT have to fix it.
True, they have to prove your not following the manual cause the problem. You have to prove your not following the manual did not cause the problem.
In come the Lawyers.
You pay for yours, they pay for theirs.
Why deal with it?
If you don't want a warrenty, don't follow the manual.
Buy a used car.
I've received warrenty service OUTSIDE the warrenty period. I am SURE that if I said the heck with the MFG requirements, they would have told me to pound sand..
I'll follow the manual and get the warrenty I paid for with the new car purchase (if I need it)
Its not like they are telling you to have your oil changed every 1k at their dealership.
Just follow the manual, keep receipts and records and sleep at night!
And enjoy the new ride!
Take care, Bill
It's not so smart when you weigh the cost of following the schedule to the potential cost of not following it. I think they call that a sucker bet.
Quote:
has anyone actually been served denial of warranty papers?
Never seen any proof.
You all have good points, so do not interpret my posts as me stating you are all full of s***.
Bill,
Lets look at it this way, say you have an engine problem and you go to the dealership. When they pull the valve covers and find the internals to be clean and sludge/varnish free, would that be sufficient evidence to say the oil has been serviced (or the oil is more deposit resistant even with longer intervals)? This is where owner neglect or manufacturing defects come in. If the engine was run dry, it may be clean, yet seized. Or perhaps it is a situation similar to the Toyota camshafts breaking (I wonder how many were questioned for oil/habits by the dealers).
Say deposits are there due to glycol ingestion, is that enough evidence to blame someone's oil/habits? No, it's not, because it'd be obvious that head gaskets/intake gaskets/etc. failed and caused contamination.
Bill,
Lets look at it this way, say you have an engine problem and you go to the dealership. When they pull the valve covers and find the internals to be clean and sludge/varnish free, would that be sufficient evidence to say the oil has been serviced (or the oil is more deposit resistant even with longer intervals)? This is where owner neglect or manufacturing defects come in. If the engine was run dry, it may be clean, yet seized. Or perhaps it is a situation similar to the Toyota camshafts breaking (I wonder how many were questioned for oil/habits by the dealers).
Say deposits are there due to glycol ingestion, is that enough evidence to blame someone's oil/habits? No, it's not, because it'd be obvious that head gaskets/intake gaskets/etc. failed and caused contamination.
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