Ever wonder how car sales people are trained?

[slo town]

Originally Posted by Chris142
Originally Posted by Virtus_Probi
Car salesmen aren't trained, they are HATCHED!
;^)

They always reminded me of vultures waiting on prey. As soon as you walk in that lot here they come.

And this always makes me feel sorry for them. What a miserable job to have!

Auto sales people have no access to your wallet unless you give it to them. I always feel empowered with that thought. It is 100% truth that people need their money more than they do a car.

Scott

 

[AZjeff]

Interesting reading about the other side of the sale from guys in the biz. I've always wanted to sell cars but not the way it's done now.

Some say take the emotion out of it, easy enough if you think of cars as appliances, harder if the exact car you want is sitting in front of you.

My BIL was buying a new Chevy truck, he knew what he wanted, the Chevy dealer had it, he wanted to make the deal and buy it. The salesman insisted they go for a test drive, he said no need I want that truck. Salesman wouldn't proceed, BIL left and bought the truck 20 miles away. Guy lost a sale because he wouldn't break the script.

 

[clarkflower]

Originally Posted by supton
Originally Posted by clarkflower
People forget what a big money business this is. Some dealers take in 350,000 a month in document fees

Yeah but what's their tax load (commercial property in a desirable location), and interest they pay while having a car on their lot, and salaries (I believe salespeople get some sort of base pay?, and then there are non-sales people), and upkeep on the property.

They do fine

Sonic conf call >> During the second quarter 2018 our EchoPark operation generated $180.2 million in revenue, retailing as I mentioned 7,459 vehicles; this represents revenue and ........

 

[DoubleWasp]

Originally Posted by MCompact
Although I was the product specialist I could sell cars if everyone else was busy. The new car manager called me the "anti-salesman" because of my laidback approach. I had several customers return because they said they felt hustled at other dealers.


I was in the same boat when I did sales. Our GM hated me so much. He had a customer go up to him and thank for dealing with me because I "didn't pressure her at all". He stopped talking to me after she accepted my first offer and bought a fully loaded minivan. I won the spiff for that month. Traditionally, the GM handed us the check and shook our hand in front of everyone.

I found my check taped to the bottom of the middle drawer of my desk.

My approach was simple. Shoot the deal so straight that the customer was flabbergasted into buying the car. People called me "Trust Fund" because for some odd reason, well-to-do men kept asking for me to buy cars for their yound adult children, wives, and Mistresses. Somebody was putting me out there as the guy to go to for a no-bull deal on a car.

Don't regret the experience. Taught me a lot about how to sell and maintain a business.

 

[dadto2]

Originally Posted by WyrTwister
Buying a car is just a business decision . Leave the emotion at home or you will end up skinned .

One of their tactics is to ask what color do you like ? I tell them the only color I am interested in is green & then rub my thumb and trigger finger together . Some times they are a little slow on the uptake & I have to explain . Green , the color of money .

One of the valuable lessons my father taught me: "My favorite color car is whichever car is the best deal on the lot..."

 

[Virtus_Probi]

Originally Posted by Chris142
Originally Posted by Virtus_Probi
Car salesmen aren't trained, they are HATCHED!
;^)

They always reminded me of vultures waiting on prey. As soon as you walk in that lot here they come.

I had a really strange experience with a Ford dealer quite some time ago...my wife and I were strolling around their lot looking at anything that caught our attention, we were quite early in the process and didn't really care to talk to a salesman.
One approached us and asked if we needed help, we said no thank you and he very politely offered us a card and asked us to come back to him when we were ready to talk.

We went back with the card maybe 2-3 months later, showed the card to the receptionist and she pointed us to his desk while letting us know he was busy at the moment but would be right over.
We sat at the desk for maybe 5 minutes and the guy stopped by, looked at us as if we might be IRS agents on a surprise visit, and asked who we were.
We showed him the business card he had given us, he looked at it quickly and then demanded,
"Where did you get this card?"
Told him that he had given it to us in the lot, this made him very agitated and he again demanded,
"Seriously, you HAVE to tell me WHERE YOU GOT THIS CARD."
This went on for some time and I was thinking we should just leave, but he finally relented and asked us to wait a few more minutes. By this time he had progressed to looking at us like I was wearing a pair of his pants and my wife might have been an ex-girlfriend with whom he had experienced a particularly bad breakup.
The wait gave us time to confer and my wife and I decided we would waste as much of the guy's time as possible and never buy anything from him.
We drove a Taurus, F150, some kind of weird AWD minivan, I'm not sure what else...the salesman kept telling us these vehicles didn't have much to do with each other and we just replied that we weren't quite sure what we were looking for and were hoping the test drives would point us one way or the other.
We didn't find anything we liked, thanked the "gentleman" politely for his time, and never went back.
We were both looking for cars at that time, I ended up with an Outback (boring but rock solid for winter) and she got a Bonneville some time later...I enjoyed driving that Pontiac! I couldn't talk her into going supercharged but it was still a fun car.
I was pretty hot for an F150 until I realized I'd probably have to park it outside...an obvious point that I just didn't think about for quite some time.

The thing I never understood....why was it such a big deal where we got his business card?
And, why didn't he believe that he had handed it to us personally?

 

[Malo83]

Last three cars that i purchased was thru the dealer Internet Mgr. Just went in to pickup the vehicles and out the door we went.

 

[Vuflanovsky]

In the modern era, I don't understand how people who do a little research can't do a "workaround" in even having to deal with these car sales types who're hyped up on donuts and coffee and have seen a few too many Zig Zigler videos...not saying you'll always get a better deal, but I've generally found that I can get a bit more negotiating room with the "internet sales manager" or equivalent who sits in his own office and I make an appointment with than a "white on rice" sales guy who deals with walk-in foot traffic that goes to his manager and facilitates the sales price tango.

I remember wasting an hour at a dealership in the 1990s with this kind of nonsense and driving 15 miles to buy the EXACT same new car with 35 more test drive miles on it for $1500 less. During that experience, one of these clowns jokingly called me "Aftermarket" to his little dealership buddies when I asked a legitimate question about a minor component that I intended to change after I bought the vehicle that he could give a [censored] about...there's professional and there's closer to mindless and least effort. How anybody could think that disrespecting the customer does himself any good is beyond me...

 

[edyvw]

Best thing I have ever witnessed.
So, I want to get some decent car when I was graduate student. Go to local Toyota dealership just to check generally used vehicles they have. So, salesman says: hey, Camry is best bet etc. I was not in the mood to argue why I would not buy microwave oven, but whatever, I played along. So I said: maybe if this one was V6, than just maybe: His answer: hey, honestly, 4cyl or V6, there is no difference.
Just tells you who are majority of buyers of Toyota.

 

[Virtus_Probi]

Originally Posted by edyvw
Best thing I have ever witnessed.
So, I want to get some decent car when I was graduate student. Go to local Toyota dealership just to check generally used vehicles they have. So, salesman says: hey, Camry is best bet etc. I was not in the mood to argue why I would not buy microwave oven, but whatever, I played along. So I said: maybe if this one was V6, than just maybe: His answer: hey, honestly, 4cyl or V6, there is no difference.
Just tells you who are majority of buyers of Toyota.

I had two Dodge/Jeep salesman laugh at me when I told them the V6 Cherokee I had just taken for a test drive had no zip, they said it had to be better than that 4 banger RAV4 I drove in with.
I informed them that it had a 270hp V6 and they laughed even harder!
They were clearly masterful scouts of the competition...

I also had a VW sales lady tell me that she didn't know what kind of engine the Passat wagon I was test driving had, but that the umbrella holder was a really great feature.
It felt so weak that I was sure they must have given me a 4 instead of a 6 to test drive.
I then asked about the AWD system and she mentioned again that the umbrella holder was so groovy...

 

[Wolf359]

Originally Posted by SLO_Town
That is ridiculous. All that government bureaucracy does is increase the price of a vehicle and create a nanny state. With this logic, there will be a day when nanny state governments will determine and approve how much you can spend on your purchase. Is it such a big ask to expect consumers to understand basic financial principals, how to live within their means, and to know whether or not they're getting screwed?


You do realize that this is true when it comes to home mortgages right? After the financial mortgage meltdown, mortgage companies have to factor in whether the borrower can really afford the payments.. One of the changes mandated by federal law. Now you can't just do an option arm where one of the options was no payment.

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted by Virtus_Probi
Originally Posted by edyvw
Best thing I have ever witnessed.
So, I want to get some decent car when I was graduate student. Go to local Toyota dealership just to check generally used vehicles they have. So, salesman says: hey, Camry is best bet etc. I was not in the mood to argue why I would not buy microwave oven, but whatever, I played along. So I said: maybe if this one was V6, than just maybe: His answer: hey, honestly, 4cyl or V6, there is no difference.
Just tells you who are majority of buyers of Toyota.

I had two Dodge/Jeep salesman laugh at me when I told them the V6 Cherokee I had just taken for a test drive had no zip, they said it had to be better than that 4 banger RAV4 I drove in with.
I informed them that it had a 270hp V6 and they laughed even harder!
They were clearly masterful scouts of the competition...

I also had a VW sales lady tell me that she didn't know what kind of engine the Passat wagon I was test driving had, but that the umbrella holder was a really great feature.
It felt so weak that I was sure they must have given me a 4 instead of a 6 to test drive.
I then asked about the AWD system and she mentioned again that the umbrella holder was so groovy...

Best is when Audi salesman tries to convince you that these transverse engine Audi's have same AWD as S8 or A6.

 

[Danno]

Just started a job at a car dealer as their used car buyer. Studying to get my OMVIC license.
Interesting topic in today's sales meeting is to be up front on folks that are under water in their trade-ins. Have that difficult conversation.
Example, a customer trading in a 2018 Chev truck on a 2019 pickup. It happens more than you think.
Discussions are about being upfront with customers and making sure their needs are accommodated to the best of our abilities.
An eye opening experience for me - on the positive side.

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted by rooflessVW
Having sold cars for a year definitely helps when I go to buy one...

It sure does, and it [censored] off the sales manager even more when he tries to close the deal and things don't go his way. LOL

 

[JTK]

"It's a forty four THOUUUUUsand dollar truck". LOL. In regards to light trucks, how are you supposed to know what's a good deal or not, when they're all ~$8-10K below MSRP? I just went through this with a family member who bought a new Ram pickup. $40K sticker. ~$33K + TTL after rebates, customer cash and dealer discount. Take it or leave it. Would not budge below that.

I actually kind of miss those sales tactics, or when one guy handled it all. My experience with my local mega dealer chain is very different. If you walk in or make an appt with a sales person, that person really can't do anything for you other than grab a vehicle you're interested in and manage the paper stream. They walk away to get a trade allowance number for you. They walk away for the price of the vehicle you're buying. Then in the end the finance person has to, or tries to give you the extended warranty and/or service contract sales pitch.

 

[JustN89]

The problem is the dealerships are trying to deal with the internet. More and more people are comparing prices online before ever going to a dealership, so dealers have to put their best foot forward online. That generally means invoice minus all rebates possible on that model (whether or not customers will actually qualify for it). That's why they often won't budge on the price. The only money left in the front is any incentives the manufacturer is offering the dealership for volume of sold vehicles or the sale of a certain model. When I was selling Honda, that was roughly $350 on average per new car sold. If the customer was halfway educated and prepared for purchasing a car, we rarely made money on just the sale of the car. We had to hold money on the trade-in or rely on our finance department to make money on the back end.

 

[javacontour]

I'd believe it.

I think some of it is self-inflicted. Consistently, car salespeople rank with politicians with respect to trustworthiness. So it seems some of it is brought on by questionable approaches.

Doesn't make it right for customers to do it either. I can simply see how it's a downward spiral.

For every desperate buyer, there is a dealer willing to capitalize on that desperation.

I couldn't be a salesman. I'd be too honest. I'd probably want to tell people that while they want a Bentley, they need to buy a cash car and save their money for the next ride.

Or, you have a ~500 credit score, maybe you shouldn't buy a used car with a 24% APR....

I do recall the story where a Ford store was trying to move me up I dunno, $500 from where we were on the deal. I told him I could see if I needed another couple of hundred dollars, if my trade wasn't as described, but I was helping them move a stick shift car off the lot, giving them an automatic in trade, and so on. After about 30 minutes of this, I lowered my offer. The salesman told me I could do that and that a half hour ago, I was willing to pay $200 more.

I told him my time was valuable. He could do a mini-deal with me and get on with his Saturday, or we could go back and forth.

I got my way.

I'm not looking to take anyone's head off, nor do I want mine taken off.

If the place seems shady, and many are, there is no deal worth supporting a shady dealer.

I'm sure there are customers who need to be fired as well. If they have unrealistic expectations, let them go waste someone else's time.

But I'm at the dealership to buy a car. I'm probably in the minority. Many are looking to get financed, or they want a warranty, or for them to roll in the aftermarket wheels and whatever into the payment.

I do have to say, the salesman who sold us my wife's Rav4 was excellent. We wanted something that "our region" didn't offer, a FWD XLE with the technology package. Buyers in IL have to move up to the Limited to get that combination, even though it's spelled out in the Rav4 literature. oilBabe isn't a fan of leather seating, so the Limited was a no-go.

He found one in a neighboring state, traded for it, and got us what we wanted for just under $30k OTD with TTL included in that. Of course, they took the 2002 Camry with 277k miles, bald tires and a bad exhaust, so I guess we gave them $30,499, LOL.

But we recommend him to all who ask us about the car. He was an outstanding sales rep.

The problem is, he isn't what most customer's experience.

Originally Posted by otis24
The problem with car sales is that you can't be honest with the customer, because they aren't honest with you. At least they are totally clueless. A new pickup has about $2500 markup. There may be some hold back money for advertising. Most customers think you can knock 8-10 grand off the price after rebates. AND, give them clean retail (plus a grand or two). I used to tell customers, if my brand new xz2000 with all of the bells and whistles isn't worth clean retail, what makes yours worth clean retail? Or more? A fellow salesman gave a customer a price of $5000 below our cost, knowing that the customer would take that price and go shopping elsewhere and get a reality check. Know what the customer said? Answer: "That still sounds a little high. Knock off another $500 and I might thing about it". Dealt with several customers like this. One lady had a vehicle that was worth about $6k. She thought it was worth about $16k because everybody she know "wanted to buy her truck if she ever sold it". We had an identical truck (same color, options, mileage, everything) that came from the same town she lived in. We were asking around $8k for it. So yes, dealers play games, but they are forced to because most customers are highly delusional. I firmly believe that I could put a new $54k diesel pickup on sale for $29k and 95% of the customers would say "you're going to have to sharpen your pencil a lot more if you want me to buy it. I'm sure I can get it at (insert dealership name) waaaaay cheaper than that". I enjoyed the sales process, don't get me wrong. But some rules always apply. Rule number one is "ya can't fix stupid"!

 

[DB_Cooper]

The automobile industry still sells cars like it is the 1920s. A completely obsolete manufacturing distribution model...almost a MLM... Sate mandated too. Laws say you must have a "local" business entity sell your cars..with the exception of Tesla, no manufacturer may directly sell cars in most states..So there is a intermediary level of very expensive distribution costs...inventory, cost of money, commissions and overhead..Just look at most modern dealerships..they are huge Taj Mahal palaces with enormous.overhead like maintenance, taxes and utilities too..which makes no sense at all as cars have become an appliance with brand.

And the pricing! Who can blame the average consumer for unrealistic negotiating??. Look at those stunts the car industry uses:"Get $15,000 OFF MSRP on All New RAM 1500 Big Horn Crew Cab!" etc. Regulators mandated all cars be sold with a "Monroney Label" so the consumer could compare prices. So the car industry universally just created a bogus price tag for the window of the car. Then used the "dealer invoice" as the "real price"..without showing real cost, incentives and holdbacks..so big surprise..the consumer asks for too much off the sticker?.

Look at the OPs YouTube video..all the language designed to confuse and close a deal..terrible...the car industry could be headed for a big fall..like like Sears..

 

[Propflux01]

Originally Posted by DB_Cooper
.............And the pricing! Who can blame the average consumer for unrealistic negotiating??. Look at those stunts the car industry uses:"Get $15,000 OFF MSRP on All New RAM 1500 Big Horn Crew Cab!" etc. Regulators mandated all cars be sold with a "Monroney Label" so the consumer could compare prices. So the car industry universally just created a bogus price tag for the window of the car. Then used the "dealer invoice" as the "real price"..without showing real cost, incentives and holdbacks..so big surprise..the consumer asks for too much off the sticker?..


This is the single biggest reason I have a hard time with dealers who act like $500 off the sticker price is doing you some kind of favour. I don't buy all that razor thin margin crapola between what the dealer pays for the car, along with its kickbacks, and what they try to sell you as the lowest they can go. I can understand why consumers go into a dealer with "unreal" expectations. In the case above, how did that magical 15000$ just appear.....

My last car fiasco, this last December, was wanting to pay cash for the vehicle, then being told I would have to pay more because they were losing the kickback from the finance company. I left.

 

[PWMDMD]

Couple thoughts:

1. They way we buy cars in the US is insane. Here's an idea...a manufacture dictates all of it's cars must be sold for MSRP or a standard discount available to all dealerships in area no matter which dealership sells it. Want car X in this trim? It will be the exact same price no matter where you go. Until then I enter car negotiations like I'm going to war until the salesperson proves themselves nonthreatening to my wallet.

2. That is not to say if the salesperson is being fair I'm not fair. With the internet it's just so easy to know what others have paid. My expectation is I should be able to get close. I'm not looking for 20% below invoice.

3. I do all my negotiation via email and I don't show up or meet anyone until the deal is ready to be signed. I start with the five closest dealers and just start crossing each one out as I go if they can't get close on price or play games.

4. The last couple cars have been easy purchases. Everyone doing internet sales seems to give pretty good initial quotes with the difference between 4 or 5 dealerships being off by a $50-300. One dealership quoted $2500 above everyone else....crossed them out right away. No upselling by finance manager. I showed up inspected the car, signed and done in 20 mins. I will never walk in and negotiate with a salesman on the floor.

5. I learned this from a friend who is a top Subaru salesman in the country - he specializes in internet sales. He gives great competitive quotes right away and doesn't want to see you until your ready to sign. He sits at a desk and can have ten deals going simultaneously why the floor guys can only deal with 1 or 2 people at a time. He makes his money selling volume. The faster you sign because the initial offer was good the sooner he can forget about you and move onto the next person deal.

6. NEVER be afraid to walk away. NEVER!!! Someone looks at me the wrong way and I walk...no matter how far into the process we are I'll walk.