EV vehicles and crash safety

[JeffKeryk]

According to a study by the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA), an estimated 94% of motor vehicle accidents were caused by driver error. Accidents caused by vehicle problems and environmental conditions accounted for very few traffic accidents. The most common human factors reported for causing accidents include:

• Improper lookout
• Excessive speed
• Inattention

Maybe you're barking up the wrong tree?

 

[1lieutenant]

According to a study by the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA), an estimated 94% of motor vehicle accidents were caused by driver error. Accidents caused by vehicle problems and environmental conditions accounted for very few traffic accidents. The most common human factors reported for causing accidents include:

• Improper lookout
• Excessive speed
• Inattention

Maybe you're barking up the wrong tree?

Could you clarify? How does the root cause of accidents affect the weight differential of light duty EV v ICE vehicles?

 

[Snagglefoot]

Have any studies been done on the effect of EV vehicles on real world crash safety? I was reading an article online in Car and Driver about the Chevy Silverado EV. When discussing the vehicle, I was astounded at the unladen vehicle weight of 8953 pounds or almost double a Chevy 1500 pickup! Seems like vehicles of this weight would result in much more severe injuries to more pedestrian ICE vehicle in an accident.

I realize there are many heavy ICE vehicles on the road but these are limited to heavy duty commercial vehicles and the numbers are not as high as privately owned vehicles. As more and more of these EVs are on the roads, I suspect crash fatalities may increase. I wonder if this has been studied or if it is an unintended consequence.

True it’s heavy, but I guess it depends on which 1500 it’s compared to. According to Car & Driver this 1500 posted weighs 5653 lbs. The EV version is 3300 lbs heavier or about 37% heavier, no where close to being “ almost double a Chevy 1500 pickup”

 

[demarpaint]

True it’s heavy, but according to Car & Driver a 1500 weighs 5653 lbs. The EV version is 3300 lbs heavier or about 37% heavier, no where close to being “ almost double a Chevy 1500 pickup”

View attachment 226987

37% heavier is still a lot more weight, over 1.5 tons heavier in your example. The EV pushers don't appear too concerned about the weight of an EV, or the dangers associated with it, but they're working real hard on eliminating ICE vehicles. Go figure.

 

[JeffKeryk]

Could you clarify? How does the root cause of accidents affect the weight differential of light duty EV v ICE vehicles?

My point is, the best accident is no accident. Driver error is, by far, the biggest cause of accidents.
Sure a heavier vehicle, all other things equal, will do more damage. Personally I don't wanna be hit by any vehicle.

 

[wemay]

The US doesn't JUST recently have a vehicle
weight issue. That's a red hearing. When the top selling vehicle in the nation is an F150 and the other trucks following close behind, blaming EVs is comical. I remember some of the very posters in this thread telling those who thought full sized trucks are unnecessary for 80% of the population that owns one, to mind their own business and let people buy what they want.

A spade...

 

[1lieutenant]

My point is, the best accident is no accident. Driver error is, by far, the biggest cause of accidents.
Sure a heavier vehicle, all other things equal, will do more damage. Personally I don't wanna be hit by any vehicle.

Thanks. Of course not getting in an accident is ideal. But they are called "accidents" not "on purpose"

 

[JeffKeryk]

Thanks. Of course not getting in an accident is ideal. But they are called "accidents" not "on purpose"

Agreed, but I am not sure they are always accidents. Not paying attention when driving, speeding, etc is a choice, right?

 

[1lieutenant]

Agreed, but I am not sure they are always accidents. Not paying attention when driving, speeding, etc is a choice, right?

The cause may be negligence, but is still an accident.

 

[Cujet]

The US doesn't JUST recently have a vehicle
weight issue. That's a red hearing. When the top selling vehicle in the nation is an F150 and the other trucks following close behind, blaming EVs is comical.

F150 2.7L 4171 Lbs, 4400 SuperCrew. Pretty much the same frontal area as the 9400 pound long range GM EV truck. EV's are "nutrient dense".

 

[Oillover]

No matter how hard you try, you cannot avoid or subvert the laws of physics.

Ironic, is it not, that to get more fuel efficient, cars and trucks have to become lighter (lighter materials, thinner materials, etc). And yet to get more range and power, EVs have to get ever heavier (larger batteries and motors), thereby consuming more power just to haul themselves down the road, as well as tear up that road (more wear and tear; it's already a thing many municipalities and states are recognizing).

Two steps forward, three steps backward.

 

[OVERKILL]

Weight of a Tesla Model 3 - 3,862 to 4,054 lbs

Weight of a Tesla Model Y - 4,154 to 4,398 lbs

Weight of a Hyundai Santa Fe - 4,343 to 4,486 lbs



Weight of a 2024 Chevy Silverado EV - 8,953 pounds

Weight of a Ford F350 Limited 4x4 SD Crew Cab 8 ft. box 176 in. - 8,127 pounds

Weight of a Rivian R1T - 7,148 pounds

Weight of a Ford F-150 Lightning - 6,015 to 6,893 pounds


Weight isn't really an EV issue. It's an American full-sized truck issue.

Yup, my Jeep is considerably heavier than the Model Y (5,195lbs) and it's roughly the same size.

 

[JeffKeryk]

The cause may be negligence, but is still an accident.

I am not sure we can agree on this. If I choose to use my cell phone while driving, I made a conscious choice to jeopardize someone's safety. It may be called an accident, but it is not an accident in the pure sense of the word.

The difference between crash and accident is how the word is used in a legal sense. The word crash implies a degree of fault and a liable party, two essential pieces of any car crash claim. The term accident implies that no one was at fault, that something just happened.

 

[SC Maintenance]

Regular cab 8 foot box F-150 2wd with V6 ecoboost is 4396 lbs curb weight, so says ford.

I don't remember exactly but my 2005 Ford F150 that matches it was over 4000 lbs. The new truck is larger - accounted for likely due to all the use of aluminum.

I know our current rav4 is both lighter and larger than the previos generation - again healthy use of aluminum.

So its really a choice by both the buyers and builders I suppose.

Almost 9000 lbs for a basic passenger level pickup truck is crazy. You used to have to get a commercial license if the primary GVWR was over 10K lbs? Not anymore I guess?

 

[meep]

To be honest, that’s an awesome post. Without being one who takes sides on the issue, I was more EV-weight biased than factoring in type. Your data proves otherwise. Rarely does a single post shift perception. This one did.

@macarose

 

[meep]

Regular cab 8 foot box F-150 2wd with V6 ecoboost is 4396 lbs curb weight, so says ford.

I don't remember exactly but my 2005 Ford F150 that matches it was over 4000 lbs. The new truck is larger - accounted for likely due to all the use of aluminum.

I know our current rav4 is both lighter and larger than the previos generation - again healthy use of aluminum.

So its really a choice by both the buyers and builders I suppose.

Almost 9000 lbs for a basic passenger level pickup truck is crazy. You used to have to get a commercial license if the primary GVWR was over 10K lbs? Not anymore I guess?

Yep. Mine with supercab, 4x4 and 36gal fuel tank I believe is 4600. My 2008 Jeep grand Cherokee 2wd v6 was 4400. The F150 is not that heavy by today’s standards. Looking at specs last night, the bmw X3 is maybe 4100?

 

[1lieutenant]

I am not sure we can agree on this. If I choose to use my cell phone while driving, I made a conscious choice to jeopardize someone's safety. It may be called an accident, but it is not an accident in the pure sense of the word.

The difference between crash and accident is how the word is used in a legal sense. The word crash implies a degree of fault and a liable party, two essential pieces of any car crash claim. The term accident implies that no one was at fault, that something just happened.

We can agree to disagree but I am not sure how this relates to the original discussion.

 

[OVERKILL]

Yep. Mine with supercab, 4x4 and 36gal fuel tank I believe is 4600. My 2008 Jeep grand Cherokee 2wd v6 was 4400. The F150 is not that heavy by today’s standards. Looking at specs last night, the bmw X3 is maybe 4100?

That's light! My wife's 1500 is apparently 5,260 curb.

 

[GMBoy]

There were a few tests floating around - - - -
Bottom line - - - These vehicles were pumped out to try and capitalize on a demand and make some wild money.
But - - - not really tested for safety of others.

Many times industry needs to be regulated because they rarely do it themselves.
Just because you can build something does not really mean you should ........

These EV trucks are deadly in a collision - even low speed collisions.

I understand where you are coming from but let me just say this:

#1 EVs were basically forced on us and auto makers by the current white house fella as well as states like California mandating a percentage of new cars sold in the state be EV. Automakers were just fine making ICE cars and trucks...

#2 True about regulations but, here again, these vehicles all meet or exceed all specs required by the gov't and with that you can almost say the gov't is risking our safety by forcing EV's on the population. A far stretch but not at all an unreasonable thought as they never implemented new safety regs to help the high weight issue with these heavier EV's.

#3 Good point...just because you can doesn't mean you should....except in the case of EV's - where automakers HAD to.

 

[1lieutenant]

That's light! My wife's 1500 is apparently 5,260 curb.

Amazingly, still almost 2 tons lighter than the Silverado EV!