European HDEO users in Gasoline engines?

[Kamele0N]

Originally Posted By: fdcg27

That monograde use in passenger car engines is no longer common on either side of the pond may be as much a result of ignorance as it is any superiority found in multigrade oils. Monogrades do have their advantages while the primary advantage of a multigrade is found in its suitability for colder weather use.


No its not a result of ignorance.....but a result of technology.....ancient (detroit) diesels are almost gone here....and majority of lawnmover oils here are API SF-SG/CD.....the highest API mark I saw was SL....its really niche market here...and so are the prices....around 8euros/L wich is the same as for 1L of brand name 5w40....5w30 with all major OEM specs.....

 

[turboseize]

Originally Posted By: fdcg27


1) "Ownership" of the Middle East has little to do with product pricing, since crude is offered on the world market and the price net of transportation costs is the same everywhere in the world. The robust revival of North American oil production over the past five years makes the Middle East less important a supplier anyway and has driven oil prices down for all, even the EU. Anyway, isn't it a European company that gets free natural gas to feed its enormous GTL plant in Qatar?

2) So a monograde is lawnmower oil? This would be news to a number of diesel operators in this country, especially those who run two stroke Detroits. That monograde use in passenger car engines is no longer common on either side of the pond may be as much a result of ignorance as it is any superiority found in multigrade oils. Monogrades do have their advantages while the primary advantage of a multigrade is found in its suitability for colder weather use. In Spain, I'd not hesitate to use a monograde in an older engine for much of each year if I could find one at a decent price. If not, I'd just run a 15W-40 HDEO, since that seems to be the most cost-effective solution.


1) Shell's GTL-based ow-30 and 0w-40 oils are actually very attractive from a price point. Much cheaper than any PAO, only slighly more expensive than a hydrocracked 5w-40.

2) No two-stroke diesel engines on european roads. The last german manucaturer of two-stroke diesels was Krupp, and they quit making them in 1963. (Then they licensed Cummins 4 strokes, whose reliability left a lot to be desired, and killed the brand shortly thereafter.)
And which advantage does a monograde offer anyway? No VII that might shear down. But that is not really a problem anymore. You can get plenty of xw-40 with HTHS >4.

So what's the point with monogrades? They're obsolete.

 

[fdcg27]

An API SM/SN monograde is easily found here. Most farm oriented stores here offer SAE 30 and 40 grade oils in everything from quarts to five gallon pails, so there must be plenty of users of these oils.
The main advantages of monogrades are their shear stability, freedom from VII caused deposits and very low volatility, further reducing deposits.
The primary advantage of a multigrade is that one need have no worries at all about seasonal changes, and that is a great convenience, especially for those who live on the expensive motor oil side of the pond.

 

[Bailes1992]

Here in the UK oil isn't as competitive as in the US. HDEO's are usually more expensive that PCMO's. I think you have to bare in mind most of our diesels are 1.4 to 2.0 litres and 4 cylinders, add into that our low sulphur diesel, EGR's, DPF's etc and a mid-SAPS PCMO will suffice.

Just as an example...
Shell Helix Ultra 5w40 A3/B4 - £5.50/litre.
Mobil1 0w40 Turbo Diesel/New Life (old forumla 0w40 FS) - £5/litre.
Mobil Delvac1 5w40 - £6.66/litre

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: FordCapriDriver
So in the US it's quite common for people to use HDEO's in older cars, but that does not seem so common on this side of the pond.

The biggest reason I'd suggest is that in other parts of the world, A3/B3 A3/B4 mineral variants exist, for instance, 15w-40 mineral. In North America, we don't tend to get such an animal. Any 15w-40 you see on the shelf will be an HDEO, such as CJ-4/SM or newer, maybe with E7, E9 on the label. When I had my old Audi, I used 15w-40 CJ-4/SM E7, E9 on occasion. It called for that viscosity (under appropriate ambients) in SJ or better, so I was obviously following the recommendations. An A3/B3 in 15w-40 would have certainly been suitable, too, but not available.

 

[FCD]

Yeah, here in Spain most 10W-40 Syn-blend and 15W-40 mineral PCMO's are A3/B3 or A3/B4.
I'm using a HDEO for the Zddp though, and the superior cleaning properties to a normal run of the mill PCMO.

 

[Garak]

For a while, here, too, synthetic HDEOs were often used in place of synthetic A3/B4 offerings. At one time, the only available products were GC 0w-30 and M1 0w-40, and they were only in one litre containers, which is far from cost effective in Canada, particularly in comparison to a jug of HDEO. When larger container sizes started to drift into our market, notably the Castrol 0w-40 and M1 0w-40, that certainly made thing easier. Nonetheless, A3/B4 has always been positioned as a synthetic here and priced accordingly, where, in a pinch and if you got really lucky, you could occasionally get a gallon of SuperTech 15w-40 HDEO here for $6.

 

[turboseize]

Originally Posted By: fdcg27
An API SM/SN monograde is easily found here. Most farm oriented stores here offer SAE 30 and 40 grade oils in everything from quarts to five gallon pails, so there must be plenty of users of these oils.
The main advantages of monogrades are their shear stability, freedom from VII caused deposits and very low volatility, further reducing deposits.


That's why there is MB 229.5/229.51 - 90 cycles through a Bosch diesel injector und

 

[Bullwinkle007]

Originally Posted By: fdcg27
An API SM/SN monograde is easily found here. Most farm oriented stores here offer SAE 30 and 40 grade oils in everything from quarts to five gallon pails, so there must be plenty of users of these oils.
The main advantages of monogrades are their shear stability, freedom from VII caused deposits and very low volatility, further reducing deposits.
The primary advantage of a multigrade is that one need have no worries at all about seasonal changes, and that is a great convenience, especially for those who live on the expensive motor oil side of the pond.


Some people companies use a straight 40wt in heavy equipment gear boxes and some use it as a replacement for hydraulic oil.

 

[Ether]

I can now get Shell Rimula RT4X 15w40 fairly cheaply.Just wondering if i should use this HDEO in my older car,1985 Ford Escort,in place of Total Quartz 10w40.If this oil has better cleaning properties,then that can't hurt an older Engine.

 

[Kamele0N]

If you want to clean internals of that engine...you can easily do this with a bit of ester oil... Either use is as a top off or replace some amount of oil with it... For an instance...in 4L sump put in 1L of ester oil and 3L of that total oil...it will also help to recondition leaky seals...

But check first that your 80's Ford has "modern" rubber seals...if it has NBR rubber seals ester oil will damage them!

Motul is cheap on clearences nowadays...you can use motocycle oil for that...it doesent matter

 

[Ether]

That's interesting,thankyou for the info.The Engine was designed in 1974,and first ran in a car in 1979,so i'm not sure about the type of rubber used for the seals.It may be safer for me to just stick with the Shell product for cleaning? Would an Ester oil really clean that much better than a HDEO?

 

[Kamele0N]

I was surprised over its cleaning abilities...

I wanted to protect a gearbox of my moffa with better oil and I bought Motul transoil 10w40 for that purpose. Moffa calls for ATF A oil in its gearbox. I am using it just for short distances from my house to the local Inn/Pub when

So it makes like 20kms/year Max

I made OCI in its gearbox one season before...and that ATF came out RED...slightly darker then new but still red! So I poured in transoil after that...it has interesting fluorescent yellow-green colour...but was not satisfied with its addpack...it is to slippery for Moffas automatic clutches and it made shifting notchy...so I dumped it after two weeks with less than 3kms in a gearbox and changed it with ATF A... 3kms befor it went in yellowis green...3kms after it went out with black-green colour...

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: Ether
I can now get Shell Rimula RT4X 15w40 fairly cheaply.Just wondering if i should use this HDEO in my older car,1985 Ford Escort,in place of Total Quartz 10w40.

It will be perfectly suitable for that application, of course, assuming a 15w-XX is suitable in your part of Europe, which at this time of year, is quite likely.

 

[Ether]

Thankyou Garak.I'll only be using the car from May-Sept,so temps would be from about 50-80f.Looking forward to using a HDEO for the first time.

 

[FCD]

Originally Posted By: Ether
I can now get Shell Rimula RT4X 15w40 fairly cheaply.Just wondering if i should use this HDEO in my older car,1985 Ford Escort,in place of Total Quartz 10w40.If this oil has better cleaning properties,then that can't hurt an older Engine.

I would use it without thinking twice

.
Just wondering, does your engine have a CVH engine or what engine?

 

[Ether]

Thanks FordCapriDriver

Yes,i have the 1.6 carb CVH engine in my Escort.It was my late Father's car.It gets very little use,and i'm not sure how often he used to change the oil in it.Looking through the oil filler cap,it looks a little dirty,varnish but no visible sludge,runs very well with no unusual noises.I was thinking that it would be better to do some cleaning with a good HDEO over time,rather than use a flush,or other type of engine cleaning product.

 

[FCD]

My Xr3i has the Mfi K-Jetronic 1.6 CVH, 105PS, the previous owner used 20W-50 and did not change it often, the engine has varnish and some sludge but it's not too bad, i changed the oil 3 weeks after i bought it and put in Shell Rimula R4X, also because i think it should clean it better than a regular Mineral 15W-40 or Semi 10w-40.

I also like R4X because of the Zddp, 1250ppm according to a VOA, this is great for a CVH because they have unusually high valve spring pressures and the oiling system to the camshaft is not very good, CVH engines tend to wear out camshafts because of this and most have some valvetrain noise ( mine does ) but it runs perfectly and surprisingly does not seem to burn much oil ( i have done 1500km since the change and i have not had to add any oil yet )

 

[Ether]

I had heard that about the CVH Valve Spring Pressures,and the design fault with the Camshaft from an ex Ford Technician,i didn't know the Shell oil had that ZDDP content.The Total Quartz 7000 that i had been using previously,has moved up from SL to SN spec,the MSDS lists ZDDP at 760PPM,so the Shell oil is superior in that respect.As we both have a car with the same engine,it would be interesting to compare our results from using the Shell oil.I'm very interested to see if it will actually clean things up a little bit over time,compared to the standard PCMO i have been using in the past.

 

[FCD]

I say go for it, i've driven about 1000 km since i put it in and it seems to now be starting to turn brown, which is good, it means it's cleaning it up, i plan on changing it again after the summer.