Ethanol in gas

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RF Overlord

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This is actually a fuel question, not an oil question, but it concerns OPE, so I'm asking it here.

Why is everyone obsessed with draining the fuel out of their equipment? I have gas I bought 14 months ago in my generator. I start it about once a month and run it with a partial load for 15 minutes or so. Always runs perfectly. Same thing with my walk-behind mower...I have a separate gas can for that and I can't even remember when I bought that gas...mower started on the first pull this season and ran perfectly for over an hour while I cut the grass. Even the gas in my "summer toy" car sits in it all winter and the car starts and runs fine every spring and it sometimes takes me a couple of months to use up the full tank.

I'm not arguing that gas won't eventually go stale, I just haven't seen any evidence that E10 goes bad any quicker than "whole" gas.
 
Not that it goes "stale"-the ethanol sucks up moisture from the air like a sponge, and then won't hold 2-stroke oil and tends to gunk up fuel systems. IMHO a coastal area would be worse than here in the (still humid) heartland. I try to keep tanks as full as possible and use Startron or Sta-Bil, and keep my fingers crossed!
 
Originally Posted By: RF Overlord
I'm not arguing that gas won't eventually go stale, I just haven't seen any evidence that E10 goes bad any quicker than "whole" gas.

I thought the same thing until I had one bad experience. It was the classic experience of opening the carburator and finding the fuel had gelled and corroded the metal form sitting during the off season. The corrosion was so bad it almost perforated the fuel bowl. Now I drain everything at the end of the season.

Look up "phase separation" to get a detailed understanding of this mechanism that occurs with E10.
 
im not a fan of draining the fuel, ive seen that do as much harm as good (drying out diaphrams, etc). stabilizer is excellent but with todays fuel, if the stabilizer doesnt mention ethanol, youre just peein in the wind imo
 
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Don't leave E10 in for more than 3 weeks! The long term dangers of ethanol (and other alcohol-blended fuels) are many, including deterioration of parts (rubber, aluminum, fiberglass etc.), rusting, fuel system clogging, and other varied damage to engine parts and components. Older engines are more prone to ethanol alcohol damage.


The most reported and troublesome issue with marine engines and ethanol fuel has been regarding the decomposition of certain fiberglass gas tanks. There really is no solution to this issue, other than to replace the tank (very costly, time-consuming project); Lining or sealing the tank, for added protection, is sometimes possible.
 
I've never had any problems with ethanol, even when it's over a month old. I always drain my machines before winter storage, but I would do that even if there wasn't any ethanol in it. I've never had any problems from leaving my machines dry either. I think the whole concern with ethanol is hugely overblown.
 
Excellent topic and highly informative.

I use Fuel Power Plus (FP+) in all my cars/equipment. Didn't start using it in the lawnmower until the last couple years. I think it was the 1st of last year's mowing season when the Toro wouldn't start. Gave it an ounce of FP, finally got it started, been purring ever since, but I also started adding FP to the fuel containers to avoid this in the future. So far so good.

A friend of ours owns a Lawnmower & small engine sales/repair shop. E10 is the cause of much grief for uninformed owners and helps him pay the bills with all the business that walks in the door from those uninformed owners.
 
The divergence of experiences reported with E-10 is perplexing.

You get people chiming in from states that have had E-10 for 15 years or more and they claim zero problems.

Then you get posts like above, and you have to wonder what's going on:
Quote:
Not that it goes "stale"-the ethanol sucks up moisture from the air like a sponge, and then won't hold 2-stroke oil and tends to gunk up fuel systems.

Don't leave E10 in for more than 3 weeks! The long term dangers of ethanol (and other alcohol-blended fuels) are many, including deterioration of parts (rubber, aluminum, fiberglass etc.), rusting, fuel system clogging, and other varied damage to engine parts and components.


Is this divergence due to different fuel quality across the country? Different climates and storage conditions? Different fuel management practices?

It's as if we are talking about 2 different products, the good E-10 and the evil brother E-TENfold.
 
There are those who believe the E10 in any form is evil and the cause of every related fuel problem known to man. It provides a convenient excuse or scapegoat for just about any fuel system problem, particularly in states that have not had ethanol for a very long time (full disclosure - Minnesota has had ethanol in its gasoline for 15+ years). Is it the cause of some fuel problems? Sure. Is the cause of all of them? No. That being said, I know in my case we have some old OPE that we run non-oxy gasoline in. I've had to do a very similar amount of fuel system maintenance on those as I have equipment that was built to handle E10. The reality is both non-oxy and ethanol fuels can go bad.
 
The only gas we have in this area has ethanol in it. I,ve never had a problem with 2 stroke fuel or in my straighr gas engines.
 
Originally Posted By: Bluestream
Don't leave E10 in for more than 3 weeks! The long term dangers of ethanol (and other alcohol-blended fuels) are many, including deterioration of parts (rubber, aluminum, rusting, fuel system clogging, and other varied damage to engine parts and components.
If that were the case, then my mower, my chainsaw and my generator, not to mention two of my cars, should have disintegrated into piles of rubble by now.
 
Originally Posted By: tig1
The only gas we have in this area has ethanol in it. I,ve never had a problem with 2 stroke fuel or in my straighr gas engines.


Go over to doo-talk.com. Lots of posts on how ethanol is causeing burn downs in high perfrmance 2-stroke snowmobile engines.

Also here, read all posts by the Chemist: The Chemist
 
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Originally Posted By: doitmyself
The divergence of experiences reported with E-10 is perplexing.

You get people chiming in from states that have had E-10 for 15 years or more and they claim zero problems.

Then you get posts like above, and you have to wonder what's going on:
Quote:
Not that it goes "stale"-the ethanol sucks up moisture from the air like a sponge, and then won't hold 2-stroke oil and tends to gunk up fuel systems.

Don't leave E10 in for more than 3 weeks! The long term dangers of ethanol (and other alcohol-blended fuels) are many, including deterioration of parts (rubber, aluminum, fiberglass etc.), rusting, fuel system clogging, and other varied damage to engine parts and components.


Is this divergence due to different fuel quality across the country? Different climates and storage conditions? Different fuel management practices?

It's as if we are talking about 2 different products, the good E-10 and the evil brother E-TENfold.


The clue is in the other thread is started. Not every gas labeled 10% ethanol has ethanol in it. Even if it has the % can be much lower.

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2626231&page=1
 
Any of the gummed up fuel systems I've worked on in the last bunch of years on inop OPE, was on machines that sat for a long period of time with a full fuel tank.

These machines were typically stored out of the weather and left untouched for over a year.

I've found the fuel tank, lines and carbs full of a greenish goo that smells more varnish like than gasoline and the content in the fuel tank has evaporated to about 1/3 of what was in there originally.

FWIW, my area has had mostly E10 for 20+ years now. Now it's entirely E10, so it's hard to say if it's entirely the E10's fault or just the cheapness and sensitivity of today's bubble gum and paper mache carburetors.

Joel
 
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Originally Posted By: doitmyself
The divergence of experiences reported with E-10 is perplexing.

You get people chiming in from states that have had E-10 for 15 years or more and they claim zero problems.
................


Just my 2 cents but I think a lot of the naysayers having bad experience with Ethanol, just had bad timing and their equipment was already on the way to failure even if they had non Ethanol blended gas. Not all, but some.

Take it FWIW, but I have never had a fuel related problem with Ethanol and my OPE. I also treat my OPE gas with MMO just as I had in pre-ethanol days. Depending on the season, my Lawn Tractor, pressure washer, wood chipper and snow blower sit 6+ months at any given time primed and fueled with no issue. Also, my 1 gallon of 2 cycle mix lasts the whole year just fine also.
 
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Originally Posted By: Bluestream
Originally Posted By: tig1
The only gas we have in this area has ethanol in it. I,ve never had a problem with 2 stroke fuel or in my straighr gas engines.


Go over to doo-talk.com. Lots of posts on how ethanol is causeing burn downs in high perfrmance 2-stroke snowmobile engines.

Also here, read all posts by the Chemist: The Chemist


All l I can tell you is that we have had e10 here for many years and I have never had a problem or any of my friends. You know how the internet is. I leave gas in cans for months at a time for the generator, weed wacker, mowers,etc. In fact I started the gen today after setting for months with no problem.
 
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Originally Posted By: tig1
The only gas we have in this area has ethanol in it. I,ve never had a problem with 2 stroke fuel or in my straighr gas engines.


If you like the E10, I guess you will love the E15

Get ready for E15

The Outdoor Power Equipment Institute (OPEI) has announced it will legally challenge the Environmental Protection Agency's "Regulation to Mitigate Misfueling" rule. OPEI says this rule – added by the EPA to address concerns of incorrectly using E15 in lawnmowers, chainsaws, motorcycles, snowmobiles, ATVs, UTVs, boats and older vehicles – won't prevent potential misfueling
 
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Originally Posted By: JTK
FWIW, my area has had mostly E10 for 20+ years now. Now it's entirely E10, so it's hard to say if it's entirely the E10's fault or just the cheapness and sensitivity of today's bubble gum and paper mache carburetors.


That's an intriguing possibility; I don't think it's been posted here before. It's too easy to blame the gas when the engine itself, and particularly the carb, have been built as cheaply as possible. It's not like the average lawnmower or snowblower has a 5 year/60 000 mile power train warranty, which certainly isn't uncommon in cars.
 
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