Corrosion isn't as often as you believe ... And all gas Stations and cars made here, as it should be in there have protection (chrome or nickel surface layered if steel tanks are in use) that goes beyond the needs, even if you run the car 1/4 full once a month and don't drain the tank. My cars are imported from US and japan, and see alcohol for the last decades and no corrosion is envisioned. If your station are still on gascolators and domestic gluee, that's a infrastructure and modernization problem ... The very fairy tale is the overreaction to the edges of the funny insanity. Simple measures that should be implemented already as of right now, will avoid such problems. Cool down people your car won't fall down to the floor if you use 15% ethanol. Wake up from the nightmare, because Sandman isn't true.
ethanol - bacteria - corrosion article
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Originally Posted By: Rosetta
Ah FYI the ethanol added to US gasoline is the Anhydred version, so there is no water to dilute it and feed those pesky corrosive evil steel eater bugs...
How long does it stay anhydrous though? That's the kicker.
Ah FYI the ethanol added to US gasoline is the Anhydred version, so there is no water to dilute it and feed those pesky corrosive evil steel eater bugs...
How long does it stay anhydrous though? That's the kicker.
So, I should drive about 500 miles a day and fill up each night, to ensure my tank is full and with fresh gas, in which the ethanol hasn't had the chance (or air volume in the tank) to absorb a lot of moisture.
garak ,I just tell you what some are suggesting to do for big rig,does it apply to cars ?who knows
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I forgot that you guys keep breathing trought the fuel in the tank ... Or you live in 110% humidity climate to wet the tank that much so you need to use the ethanol that quick ... Exageration!
I have a gallon of methanol with 10 years that I've opened about 50 times by the sea, and my O.S. Max just love it!
Ethanol isn't silica dissecant!
If it was that good to absorb water, you should use a big plate with ethanol to keep you closets dry ...
I have a gallon of methanol with 10 years that I've opened about 50 times by the sea, and my O.S. Max just love it!
Ethanol isn't silica dissecant!
If it was that good to absorb water, you should use a big plate with ethanol to keep you closets dry ...
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110% humidity may not be possible, but what is that condensation we often find outside in the morning? Overnight temperatures often drop below the dew point in many places, including here. So if the fuel tank contains warm humid air drawn in while driving the day before, overnight it may cool down enough for the humidity level to reach 100% and condensation begins within the tank.
Rosetta, no one is saying that. Where one can see problems with alcohol in fuels - particularly methanol, which is far worse than ethanol - is when there are temperature swings. A little bit of humidity isn't a problem. A lot of humidity in the summer isn't a problem. But, when the temperature drops like a stone, it becomes an issue. In Brazil, I bet it doesn't go down to -40 very often, and one doesn't go from a 10 C heated garage to a -40 outside temperature. That kind of thing gets problematic.
But a -40 degrees freezing ambient air, heated to 10 degrees in a garage, as in your scenario, is possibily considered to be full of moisture? Then you go outside and that hard moisture condensates and flood the tank and mix with alcohol content ...
I don't have much experience with -40 degrees temperatures, for sure.
And, Yes, temperature swings could accelerate the rate of hydratation on that ethanol, you're right on that part. But in what degree and rate? IMO So small in average consumption time, as I could envision from my experience ...
I don't have much experience with -40 degrees temperatures, for sure.
And, Yes, temperature swings could accelerate the rate of hydratation on that ethanol, you're right on that part. But in what degree and rate? IMO So small in average consumption time, as I could envision from my experience ...
No, the heated air in the garage is full of moisture, then you leave the garage, and the moisture condenses into the fuel tank. And it isn't always a small issue. For people that drive enough, it certainly won't be. But, for others who drive less (or use snowmobiles or snow blowers and such things that are often stored indoors and used intermittently, and only on the coldest days) it can be a real issue.
Fresh gas and a full tank certainly helps immensely. That's not realistic for everyone, though.
Fresh gas and a full tank certainly helps immensely. That's not realistic for everyone, though.
Why the "once freezing" and now heated air in the garage is full of moisture? You guys use moisturizers besides heater? Really, I don't know, really. The alcohol in fuel is used as de_hydrator and 15% of ethanol in a half tank of fuel, means that you can afford to have a quart of pure water on it and it won't phase separate.
You know that in any single/multi engine airplane Pilot/Operator Handbook like the Cessnas say to use 1% of alcohol (IPA) added to the fuel to make the condensation a non issue so you can have a safe flight? But that's another story.
You know that full ethanol fuel (E100) in here has 8% of pure water added (or not taken out) on it? It's 92,6 degrees GL. You know what that means? It's called hydrated ethanol and makes the engine run stronger than anhydre alcohol (just remember water injection in WW2 planes). You guys should stop whining about a little moisture in the air ... And the modern synthetic rubbers used nowadays don't give a spat for ethanol, even pure. That how it works here. I'm Just giving you guys an outsider perspective, not trying to be a wise guy.
You know that in any single/multi engine airplane Pilot/Operator Handbook like the Cessnas say to use 1% of alcohol (IPA) added to the fuel to make the condensation a non issue so you can have a safe flight? But that's another story.
You know that full ethanol fuel (E100) in here has 8% of pure water added (or not taken out) on it? It's 92,6 degrees GL. You know what that means? It's called hydrated ethanol and makes the engine run stronger than anhydre alcohol (just remember water injection in WW2 planes). You guys should stop whining about a little moisture in the air ... And the modern synthetic rubbers used nowadays don't give a spat for ethanol, even pure. That how it works here. I'm Just giving you guys an outsider perspective, not trying to be a wise guy.
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Well, there is some moisture introduced from the burning of natural gas. The real problem is when snow comes in with the vehicle from outside. Of course, that will melt and then subsequently evaporate, and you can have some significant moisture in the air in the garage. Then, you go outside into -40 for a few hours, and that's a problem.
Of course, ethanol helps with the condensation issue. My point, however, is that it becomes counterproductive in certain circumstances. I've been using ethanol fuels - by choice before it was widely available - for years. For a regularly driven vehicle in the winter, particularly a vehicle that doesn't go through massive temperature swings all the time, ethanol is a great tool. It's much better than certain alternatives, notably methanol. I also don't blame it for fuel system problems. Those are because manufacturers like to spend eighty cents to make a fuel system in small engines.
But, it's not some godsend or solution to all of life's little problems. And you'd be surprised at how much condensation can accumulate from temperature swings of fifty degrees centigrade on a regular basis.
Of course, ethanol helps with the condensation issue. My point, however, is that it becomes counterproductive in certain circumstances. I've been using ethanol fuels - by choice before it was widely available - for years. For a regularly driven vehicle in the winter, particularly a vehicle that doesn't go through massive temperature swings all the time, ethanol is a great tool. It's much better than certain alternatives, notably methanol. I also don't blame it for fuel system problems. Those are because manufacturers like to spend eighty cents to make a fuel system in small engines.
But, it's not some godsend or solution to all of life's little problems. And you'd be surprised at how much condensation can accumulate from temperature swings of fifty degrees centigrade on a regular basis.
I guess the full tank idea only apply to big rig and cars are different beast!butsince I had issue with the various big rig I drove with biodiesel.i ll still keep the gas tank full in my car and ill still stay away from ethanol in my car!
I think the full tank thing does apply to cars, too. After all, that limits the surface area on the tank where condensation can occur.
By the way, biodiesel mix better than regular diesel with ethanol. I can mix 4 to 5 quarts in a tank of E85 w/o phase separation. I usually run about 2 quarts of bio. Regular diesel get just 1 quart and start to separate at 20C, not as good. That's a way to lubricate fuel system and engine top. Biodiesel is even better than kerosene and has a lot of cleaning additives. I don't need to use MMO,techron or Seafoam. My intake valves have no crud in them. I'm just talking about my experiments, ok. My vehicles aren't FFV, are UL gasoline only
Not saying to someone do that, this is my disclaimer in here ...
Not saying to someone do that, this is my disclaimer in here ...
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Originally Posted By: Garak
Of course, ethanol helps with the condensation issue. (...) I've been using ethanol fuels - by choice before it was widely available - for years. For a regularly driven vehicle in the winter, particularly a vehicle that doesn't go through massive temperature swings all the time, ethanol is a great tool. It's much better than certain alternatives, notably methanol. I also don't blame it for fuel system problems.
But, it's not some godsend or solution to all of life's little problems. And you'd be surprised at how much condensation can accumulate from temperature swings of fifty degrees centigrade on a regular basis.
Now we got a deal, Garak. At -40 I also like some ethanol to get rid of water condensation. I don't like ice pellets cloging and ruining my fuel pump ...
Of course, ethanol helps with the condensation issue. (...) I've been using ethanol fuels - by choice before it was widely available - for years. For a regularly driven vehicle in the winter, particularly a vehicle that doesn't go through massive temperature swings all the time, ethanol is a great tool. It's much better than certain alternatives, notably methanol. I also don't blame it for fuel system problems.
But, it's not some godsend or solution to all of life's little problems. And you'd be surprised at how much condensation can accumulate from temperature swings of fifty degrees centigrade on a regular basis.
Now we got a deal, Garak. At -40 I also like some ethanol to get rid of water condensation. I don't like ice pellets cloging and ruining my fuel pump ...
Yep, a bit doesn't hurt, at least in my view, and if a vehicle is kept at a more stable temperature, one's getting the appropriate benefits from it. The vast majority of my gasoline powered vehicles got E-10 by my choice, before any ethanol mandates came about. Those vehicles were always, however, stored outside, so the condensation concerns in the winter were never much of an issue. And, as I said, it's way better than methanol.
I ll tell you how things happen on my truck .one was a dd serie 60 the other now is a cummins isx, you have two fuel filter on a isx the one on the engine and the other with the transparent container .if you got sa a 20% bio diesel formula in your tank the transparent filter fill up within one fuel tank ( in best case scenario)the fuel filter on engine probably fill up has fast but its classic metal design so we cant see.one filter is full of the water bio mixture where does it go?in the engine via a bypass mode.
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