Ester based motorcycle oil

bioilcurious said:
Hi everyone, I am in search of oil for my CBR600RR.

The oils I have tried were Honda HP4S, Honda HP4RU, and Lucas Oil Motorcycle Oil, none of which were ester-based that I know of. The only notable oil was the Lucas, as my clutch grabbed way better, and the shifts were notably smoother.

Let's take a look at some options:
  • Motul 300V 10W40, ester-based, really a race oil. $23 a liter
  • Redline 10W30, ester-based. $20 a quart
  • Maxima Pro Plus 10W30, ester-based. $16 a liter
  • Amsoil Metric Motorcycle Oil 10W30. $13 a quart
  • Lucas Oil 10W30 Motorcycle Oil. $12 a quart
  • Honda HP4S 10W30. $10 a quart
Most synthetics that don't claim ester are 5-10 bucks cheaper.
My owners manual wants a 10w30, JASO MA, and API SJ. This rules out the Motul 300v as it is not available in 10w30. And Amsoil gets ruled out because they say their oil is API sh.

My question is: How much better are ester-based oils (if at all) than synthetics for a high-revving motorcycle like mine?

​

Click to expand...
I have a 2023 CB500X and I too went down the rabbit hole of oil... lol one you didn't mention and has a 10w-30 like newer Hondas spec is Motul 7100. It even has the word Ester on the front of the bottle. Don't get me wrong though, I have Amsoil 10W-40 Metric in my bike stored right now.

On the topic of Amsoil, Honda requires not just MA but API SJ oil. Both their GN4 and HP4S are API SJ. Amsoil Metric is only rated API SH. I emailed Amsoil and let them know in 2023 because I wanted to run their 10-30 while in the 1 year warranty. However I could not. I ended up using Amsoil 10W-40 this last change at the end of summer. I know most dealers put in 10W-40 for oil changes as it is cheaper to stock one oil, and it is mostly for emissions. However the Amsoil 10W-40 is also API SM.

Not trashing Amsoil, it's in my bike now. But I just wish they'd update the 10w-30. I know metric bikes aren't their bread and butter but would be nice. Do I think their 10W-30 would destroy me engine... No not at all. But I still would like to see it updated before I would use it.
 
Old but relevant article. https://www.cycleworld.com/sport-rider/oils-well-that-ends-well-part-2/
Don't think motorcycle oils have changed all that much.

Most have similar levels of ZDDP.
Maybe, there was PAO in previous formulae but I can't find any new 'Synthetic' 10W-40 oils with PAO listed in MSDS at all.
All of them have Grp2+ as base oils

Valvoline 507679 was the only exception which has GTL

1742518197100.webp
 
bioilcurious said:
Here is a 8500 mile change on 300v. 2014 cbr1000rr.
Guess it depends what a long drain interval is. The Honda manual states 8,000 mile changes. Obviously racing/track day use probably was not taken into account for that interval.
Click to expand...

Do you want to do more than 8000 miles?
 
Overfill said:
  • Motul 300V 10W40, ester-based, really a race oil. $23 a liter
  • Redline 10W30, ester-based. $20 a quart
  • Maxima Pro Plus 10W30, ester-based. $16 a liter
  • Amsoil Metric Motorcycle Oil 10W30. $13 a quart
These are all winners in my book. I have never heard of people taking Maxima Pro Plus and Motul 300V into long drain intervals, being racing oils. I would buy the Amsoil or Redline, personally. @Pablo , the Metric Motorcycle Oil series has Group V co-bases, right?
Click to expand...
Im on pro plus right now 10w50, its been positive experience. Dirtbike dual sport.

Ive run 10w30 Redline , with a quart of redline 20w50 for longevity in my Honda sport bike. produced the lowest metal count numbers in that bike, which was always pretty Low. The redline took it another slight step lower.

As to Maxima pro plus verses the (extra 4) in the data specs, they both show 80 to 90 % synthetic base. Ive seen some say they cant tell a differnce between the extra4 and the pro plus. The extra is an MA product and the Proplus an MA2.

my next change I'll go back to 15w40 super 1300, and likely uoa the Proplus, which is already well past manufacturer recommended change interval and still preforming well.

But i'll be looking to buy gallon bottles more than likely. But yes, if going to run extended intervals, the proplus seems up to the task function wise.
 
I've used Ams Metric in all my bikes for years. I sent a sample to Blackstoners at 6k from my MT07 and the viscosity barely budged in 40 grade and the TBN was still high at 6. So I rode it out to 8k no prob.

Not sure I'd worry if it were ester more than the TBN getting eaten up, but that's just me.
 
FoxProTwisty said:
Not sure I'd worry if it were ester more than the TBN getting eaten up, but that's just me.
Click to expand...
It's a combination of the base oils and additive package--detergents included--that deliver fouling control. No spec alone is going to constrain a product into positive fouling removal performance (except maybe sludge), only fouling resistance. The lubricant blender/manufacturer would have to go out of their way to deliver over-the-top performance. Finished motor oil blends with Group V co-bases have a legacy of good cleanliness and removing preexisting deposits.
 

Here are some oils we are talking about and their virgin/used analysis. Scroll through the slides.
 
bioilcurious said:

Here are some oils we are talking about and their virgin/used analysis. Scroll through the slides.
Click to expand...


FWIW, the Motul 300V 4T I'm running in all of our Sportbikes, is the 15w50. One of which is a Ducati Panigale V4 Speciale. If I couldn't get the Motul for some reason, my next choice would be the Redline. I can actually get the best deal on Redline, but IMO the Motul 300V 4T just has a bit of an edge in how the bikes run.
 
02SE said:
FWIW, the Motul 300V 4T I'm running in all of our Sportbikes, is the 15w50. One of which is a Ducati Panigale V4 Speciale. If I couldn't get the Motul for some reason, my next choice would be the Redline. I can actually get the best deal on Redline, but IMO the Motul 300V 4T just has a bit of an edge in how the bikes run.
Click to expand...
https://ducatiforum.com/t/v4-owners...redline-power-sports-motul-7100-part-1.63548/
the guy also created a forum about it, and other people did some UOA. might be worth a look through if you use that specific oil.
 
kschachn said:
So have you made any kind of decision yet?
Click to expand...
I might give the Red Line 10W-30 motorcycle oil a try. It's in stock near me, meets all my owner's manual requirements, is made in the USA, and seems to get good reviews. The other oil I am looking at is the Klotz TechniPlate 10W-30, but there is not much info on it.
 
bioilcurious said:
Tell me about the HPL products. I see on different forums people recommending them. How do they compare to Amsoil or redline for example?
Click to expand...
I can't say how they compare directly.
I have been to the HPL lab and it's impressive. Clean, high QC standards. They test oil bases before accepting them, unloading them.
Several members have toured the plant.

Members here have used their engine oils with oil analysis and they are long drain capable. One member has done 20k and 30k runs. I use their oil in my vehicles. I've done 15k , my current fill I plan to go 20k in the Elantra.

I don't know if a member who has posted a UOA on the motorcycle oil, but it might be here with a search.
 
On the back of the Klotz 10W-30 motorcycle oil, it indicates an API SN. How does API work? For example, the Amsoil is only API SH. Did they send their oil to API and it only met SH, or did they just certify it for API SH?
 
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