I would also look into the whole red flashing security light thing to see what it means.
Escape hybrid dead
- Thread starter drfeelgood
- Start date
- Status
Originally Posted by zzyzzx
I would also look into the whole red flashing security light thing to see what it means.
I would also look into the whole red flashing security light thing to see what it means.
Originally Posted by drfeelgood
Originally Posted by slug_bug
Lots of hits for "2009 escape hybrid won't start" on google. Seems like the ignition switch is a common problem. Try turning the switch off and back on 20 or 30 times. Turn hard. Good luck.
Yes, I have read about those. I did try working the switch quite a few times, and, honestly that switch has always been a bit finicky. It is supposedly a DIY to replace it but may be easier to let dealer check it and replace if needed?
This shows how to test the ignition lock module as well as replace it.
Originally Posted by slug_bug
Lots of hits for "2009 escape hybrid won't start" on google. Seems like the ignition switch is a common problem. Try turning the switch off and back on 20 or 30 times. Turn hard. Good luck.
Yes, I have read about those. I did try working the switch quite a few times, and, honestly that switch has always been a bit finicky. It is supposedly a DIY to replace it but may be easier to let dealer check it and replace if needed?
This shows how to test the ignition lock module as well as replace it.
Battery and price, is why you never buy one of those kind of cars. Buying any kind of huge battery pack car is like tossing the money down the toilet. Like ya say when the batterys go bad then the car is basically scrap. Hybrids and electric cars are for wealthy people, that want to walk the talk.
Last edited:
What's unfortunate is that the high voltage pack doesn't automatically disconnect after some period of inactivity, or below some charge level. If they are Lithium based cells, they can be permanently, and dangerously, damaged by being over-discharged (which they can do to themselves by sitting for too long at a low state of charge). In this case, the electronics will typically disallow charging to prevent further issues. If they are NiMh, they may be too dead to run the battery control electronics to allow themselves to take a charge. In this case, it is not uncommon to be able to apply some voltage to the pack itself long enough to wake up the electronics, which will then allow them to charge as normal.
There is a good chance that if you can find the right guy, with the right equipment, they may be able to make it work again for a minimal fee.
It is also unfortunate that when you buy the vehicle there isn't a big sticker on the steering wheel that says, if it sits for more than a month, it may be permanently damaged unless you take special precautions.
There is a good chance that if you can find the right guy, with the right equipment, they may be able to make it work again for a minimal fee.
It is also unfortunate that when you buy the vehicle there isn't a big sticker on the steering wheel that says, if it sits for more than a month, it may be permanently damaged unless you take special precautions.
Originally Posted by CBR.worm
It is also unfortunate that when you buy the vehicle there isn't a big sticker on the steering wheel that says, if it sits for more than a month, it may be permanently damaged unless you take special precautions.
I had always hoped this would be explained by the sales person at the time of delivery. Or have a paper handed to the customer that they sign and get a copy of with the special care and feeding instructions for the specific vehicle. But alas, I work in parts and not sales.
It is also unfortunate that when you buy the vehicle there isn't a big sticker on the steering wheel that says, if it sits for more than a month, it may be permanently damaged unless you take special precautions.
I had always hoped this would be explained by the sales person at the time of delivery. Or have a paper handed to the customer that they sign and get a copy of with the special care and feeding instructions for the specific vehicle. But alas, I work in parts and not sales.
Originally Posted by bdcardinal
Originally Posted by CBR.worm
It is also unfortunate that when you buy the vehicle there isn't a big sticker on the steering wheel that says, if it sits for more than a month, it may be permanently damaged unless you take special precautions.
I had always hoped this would be explained by the sales person at the time of delivery. Or have a paper handed to the customer that they sign and get a copy of with the special care and feeding instructions for the specific vehicle. But alas, I work in parts and not sales.
Indeed, I was not aware that special treatment was needed for this car. I generally keep battery tenders on any vehicles I don't drive regularly but once this Escape gets running again I will make sure we drive it regularly. I have made a bunch of phone calls and searches and am thinking I will have a hybrid specialist check the vehicle and pull the battery and "refresh" it. He seemed familiar with this situation and thinks that getting enough charge in the High voltage battery will get the vehicle to start. I did find 1 Ford dealer who at least knew of the special Ford charger and that they would have to have it shipped to them. I will have it towed to this dealer if the battery "refresh" doesn't do the trick.
Originally Posted by CBR.worm
It is also unfortunate that when you buy the vehicle there isn't a big sticker on the steering wheel that says, if it sits for more than a month, it may be permanently damaged unless you take special precautions.
I had always hoped this would be explained by the sales person at the time of delivery. Or have a paper handed to the customer that they sign and get a copy of with the special care and feeding instructions for the specific vehicle. But alas, I work in parts and not sales.
Indeed, I was not aware that special treatment was needed for this car. I generally keep battery tenders on any vehicles I don't drive regularly but once this Escape gets running again I will make sure we drive it regularly. I have made a bunch of phone calls and searches and am thinking I will have a hybrid specialist check the vehicle and pull the battery and "refresh" it. He seemed familiar with this situation and thinks that getting enough charge in the High voltage battery will get the vehicle to start. I did find 1 Ford dealer who at least knew of the special Ford charger and that they would have to have it shipped to them. I will have it towed to this dealer if the battery "refresh" doesn't do the trick.
Last edited:
Originally Posted by drfeelgood
Originally Posted by bdcardinal
Originally Posted by CBR.worm
It is also unfortunate that when you buy the vehicle there isn't a big sticker on the steering wheel that says, if it sits for more than a month, it may be permanently damaged unless you take special precautions.
I had always hoped this would be explained by the sales person at the time of delivery. Or have a paper handed to the customer that they sign and get a copy of with the special care and feeding instructions for the specific vehicle. But alas, I work in parts and not sales.
Indeed, I was not aware that special treatment was needed for this car. I generally keep battery tenders on any vehicles I don't drive regularly but once this Escape gets running again I will make sure we drive it regularly. I have made a bunch of phone calls and searches and am thinking I will have a hybrid specialist check the vehicle and pull the battery and "refresh" it. He seemed familiar with this situation and thinks that getting enough charge in the High voltage battery will get the vehicle to start. I did find 1 Ford dealer who at least knew of the special Ford charger and that they would have to have it shipped to them. I will have it towed to this dealer if the battery "refresh" doesn't do the trick.
Originally Posted by bdcardinal
Originally Posted by CBR.worm
It is also unfortunate that when you buy the vehicle there isn't a big sticker on the steering wheel that says, if it sits for more than a month, it may be permanently damaged unless you take special precautions.
I had always hoped this would be explained by the sales person at the time of delivery. Or have a paper handed to the customer that they sign and get a copy of with the special care and feeding instructions for the specific vehicle. But alas, I work in parts and not sales.
Indeed, I was not aware that special treatment was needed for this car. I generally keep battery tenders on any vehicles I don't drive regularly but once this Escape gets running again I will make sure we drive it regularly. I have made a bunch of phone calls and searches and am thinking I will have a hybrid specialist check the vehicle and pull the battery and "refresh" it. He seemed familiar with this situation and thinks that getting enough charge in the High voltage battery will get the vehicle to start. I did find 1 Ford dealer who at least knew of the special Ford charger and that they would have to have it shipped to them. I will have it towed to this dealer if the battery "refresh" doesn't do the trick.
Originally Posted by drfeelgood
Originally Posted by bdcardinal
Originally Posted by CBR.worm
It is also unfortunate that when you buy the vehicle there isn't a big sticker on the steering wheel that says, if it sits for more than a month, it may be permanently damaged unless you take special precautions.
I had always hoped this would be explained by the sales person at the time of delivery. Or have a paper handed to the customer that they sign and get a copy of with the special care and feeding instructions for the specific vehicle. But alas, I work in parts and not sales.
Indeed, I was not aware that special treatment was needed for this car. I generally keep battery tenders on any vehicles I don't drive regularly but once this Escape gets running again I will make sure we drive it regularly. I have made a bunch of phone calls and searches and am thinking I will have a hybrid specialist check the vehicle and pull the battery and "refresh" it. He seemed familiar with this situation and thinks that getting enough charge in the High voltage battery will get the vehicle to start. I did find 1 Ford dealer who at least knew of the special Ford charger and that they would have to have it shipped to them. I will have it towed to this dealer if the battery "refresh" doesn't do the trick.
I bet it's in the owners manual. It's been discussed on BITOG before.
Originally Posted by bdcardinal
Originally Posted by CBR.worm
It is also unfortunate that when you buy the vehicle there isn't a big sticker on the steering wheel that says, if it sits for more than a month, it may be permanently damaged unless you take special precautions.
I had always hoped this would be explained by the sales person at the time of delivery. Or have a paper handed to the customer that they sign and get a copy of with the special care and feeding instructions for the specific vehicle. But alas, I work in parts and not sales.
Indeed, I was not aware that special treatment was needed for this car. I generally keep battery tenders on any vehicles I don't drive regularly but once this Escape gets running again I will make sure we drive it regularly. I have made a bunch of phone calls and searches and am thinking I will have a hybrid specialist check the vehicle and pull the battery and "refresh" it. He seemed familiar with this situation and thinks that getting enough charge in the High voltage battery will get the vehicle to start. I did find 1 Ford dealer who at least knew of the special Ford charger and that they would have to have it shipped to them. I will have it towed to this dealer if the battery "refresh" doesn't do the trick.
I bet it's in the owners manual. It's been discussed on BITOG before.
Originally Posted by ffhdriver
I bet it's in the owners manual. It's been discussed on BITOG before.
I am no longer allowed to tell people to read the owner's manual. I did that to the wrong person and ended up in our GM's office having it explained to me how it was "rude and pretentious" of me to assume the customer should read their manual. This was a long time ago with older management. I left that meeting saying I wouldn't hesitate to tell people to read their manual again as I did it and it was the least they could do in being a responsible owner.
I bet it's in the owners manual. It's been discussed on BITOG before.
I am no longer allowed to tell people to read the owner's manual. I did that to the wrong person and ended up in our GM's office having it explained to me how it was "rude and pretentious" of me to assume the customer should read their manual. This was a long time ago with older management. I left that meeting saying I wouldn't hesitate to tell people to read their manual again as I did it and it was the least they could do in being a responsible owner.
Originally Posted by meep
does the engine have a 12v starter, therefore not needing to boost the traction battery for a start? It may have a 12v starter, meaning this negates a traction battery conundrum.
No, one of the 2 electric motors in the transaxle acts as a starter/generator. See the YouTube video I posted earlier.
does the engine have a 12v starter, therefore not needing to boost the traction battery for a start? It may have a 12v starter, meaning this negates a traction battery conundrum.
No, one of the 2 electric motors in the transaxle acts as a starter/generator. See the YouTube video I posted earlier.
Last edited:
yeah - I'm aware - had one. Some of the manufacturers have chosen to keep a 12v-er in there as a backup. It's odd to me that Ford would removed the boost switch and not provide an alternative.
Here's my logic. On the previous model, the 12V battery had a purpose independent of the traction battery. That purpose was to provide emergency starting. Without the button, theres absolutely no need for it. Of course, the response to this will be, "but 12V is needed to run electronics." Sure, and a simple voltage converter from the traction battery will do that just fine, and there is already one there to cover all continuous runtime 12V loads. Why add 40lbs with a battery? We already know the 12V batt is charged by the traction power, as is reinforced with the statement earlier in this thread that it will continue to drain the trac batt even car off.
Have you poked around under the hood?
Here's my logic. On the previous model, the 12V battery had a purpose independent of the traction battery. That purpose was to provide emergency starting. Without the button, theres absolutely no need for it. Of course, the response to this will be, "but 12V is needed to run electronics." Sure, and a simple voltage converter from the traction battery will do that just fine, and there is already one there to cover all continuous runtime 12V loads. Why add 40lbs with a battery? We already know the 12V batt is charged by the traction power, as is reinforced with the statement earlier in this thread that it will continue to drain the trac batt even car off.
Have you poked around under the hood?
Originally Posted by Exhaustgases
Battery and price, is why you never buy one of those kind of cars. Buying any kind of huge battery pack car is like tossing the money down the toilet. Like ya say when the batterys go bad then the car is basically scrap. Hybrids and electric cars are for wealthy people, that want to walk the talk.
There are reman pack for like $3k or so at least for Prius, but you do need to do your math to see whether you drive enough miles to make it works. (i.e. no reason anyone should still drive a Crown Vic for cab these days).
My friend recently bought a $8k Chevy Volt with like 90k on the odo, he put another 40k on it already and the gas saving is already enough to pay for the whole $8k he paid.
The same goes for pickup and SUVs, do you really haul enough stuff to pay $40k-50k for a huge SUV or pick up when all you need is a wagon?
Battery and price, is why you never buy one of those kind of cars. Buying any kind of huge battery pack car is like tossing the money down the toilet. Like ya say when the batterys go bad then the car is basically scrap. Hybrids and electric cars are for wealthy people, that want to walk the talk.
There are reman pack for like $3k or so at least for Prius, but you do need to do your math to see whether you drive enough miles to make it works. (i.e. no reason anyone should still drive a Crown Vic for cab these days).
My friend recently bought a $8k Chevy Volt with like 90k on the odo, he put another 40k on it already and the gas saving is already enough to pay for the whole $8k he paid.
The same goes for pickup and SUVs, do you really haul enough stuff to pay $40k-50k for a huge SUV or pick up when all you need is a wagon?
I find this discussion interesting. Up until now I had strongly considered purchasing a hybrid. I understood the risks all along. But hearing from a forum member drives the point home.
Originally Posted by Cujet
I find this discussion interesting. Up until now I had strongly considered purchasing a hybrid. I understood the risks all along. But hearing from a forum member drives the point home.
What did you learn from this discussion? To me, lack of use has always been a semi-known issue with these vehicles....especially as they get older.
I find this discussion interesting. Up until now I had strongly considered purchasing a hybrid. I understood the risks all along. But hearing from a forum member drives the point home.
What did you learn from this discussion? To me, lack of use has always been a semi-known issue with these vehicles....especially as they get older.
Originally Posted by Cujet
I find this discussion interesting. Up until now I had strongly considered purchasing a hybrid. I understood the risks all along. But hearing from a forum member drives the point home.
Currently have a Lincoln Hybrid with 70,000 miles, a 2012 model. Normally I would run a car until it dies if it were purely a gas engine. This one runs great but the hybrid battery is the issue. The problem is my warranty on the battery expires in 8 months and the estimate to replace it is 4-5,000. Outrageous. With only 70,000 miles under my belt there is no way I can break even on the gas saved over the past 7 years versus the cost of a battery. Gas prices over the life of the car just have not been high enough to break even. So, those considering a hybrid, unless the battery has a lifetime warranty or you will put 150,000 miles on in the warranty period it is not a break even or money saving proposition. Now the battery could go another 3 years, maybe more or next year but when it goes the vehicle becomes worthless.
So, I am shopping for a new vehicle, non hybrid to replace this one. Love the car, over 40mpg but the black cloud hanging over my head if I have to replace that battery is a killer. Looking at the reviews for those recycling battery companies or those that only replace the damaged cells, well, many many complaints of the battery failing again in the warranty period or just after it. So, you get what you pay for it seems with a hybrid battery, new at a huge cost or replace the cells but a greater probability of failure very soon. Not worth the hassle IMO and would not do it again. Further, looking up the Ford batteries I cannot find any info on average life etc,. For the Prius lots of info but again, they quote average life in miles not years, if ave life is 150,000 miles does it matter if that gets done in 10 years or 15-17 years in my case. No one seems to have an answer. The dealer,well the service rep suggesta unloving the car before the warranty is up and I am leaning in that direction.
I find this discussion interesting. Up until now I had strongly considered purchasing a hybrid. I understood the risks all along. But hearing from a forum member drives the point home.
Currently have a Lincoln Hybrid with 70,000 miles, a 2012 model. Normally I would run a car until it dies if it were purely a gas engine. This one runs great but the hybrid battery is the issue. The problem is my warranty on the battery expires in 8 months and the estimate to replace it is 4-5,000. Outrageous. With only 70,000 miles under my belt there is no way I can break even on the gas saved over the past 7 years versus the cost of a battery. Gas prices over the life of the car just have not been high enough to break even. So, those considering a hybrid, unless the battery has a lifetime warranty or you will put 150,000 miles on in the warranty period it is not a break even or money saving proposition. Now the battery could go another 3 years, maybe more or next year but when it goes the vehicle becomes worthless.
So, I am shopping for a new vehicle, non hybrid to replace this one. Love the car, over 40mpg but the black cloud hanging over my head if I have to replace that battery is a killer. Looking at the reviews for those recycling battery companies or those that only replace the damaged cells, well, many many complaints of the battery failing again in the warranty period or just after it. So, you get what you pay for it seems with a hybrid battery, new at a huge cost or replace the cells but a greater probability of failure very soon. Not worth the hassle IMO and would not do it again. Further, looking up the Ford batteries I cannot find any info on average life etc,. For the Prius lots of info but again, they quote average life in miles not years, if ave life is 150,000 miles does it matter if that gets done in 10 years or 15-17 years in my case. No one seems to have an answer. The dealer,well the service rep suggesta unloving the car before the warranty is up and I am leaning in that direction.
Last edited:
Originally Posted by Spector
For the Prius lots of info but again, they quote average life in miles not years, if ave life is 150,000 miles does it matter if that gets done in 10 years or 15-17 years in my case. No one seems to have an answer. The dealer,well the service rep suggesta unloving the car before the warranty is up and I am leaning in that direction.
It absolutely does. Typically once you are past 10 years, this is when the failures start to uptick. 12-15 is when most fail, IME. But the warmer your climate, the most driving that you do in hilly terrain, the sooner that you will get hit.
I have 193K on my original Prius battery.
For the Prius lots of info but again, they quote average life in miles not years, if ave life is 150,000 miles does it matter if that gets done in 10 years or 15-17 years in my case. No one seems to have an answer. The dealer,well the service rep suggesta unloving the car before the warranty is up and I am leaning in that direction.
It absolutely does. Typically once you are past 10 years, this is when the failures start to uptick. 12-15 is when most fail, IME. But the warmer your climate, the most driving that you do in hilly terrain, the sooner that you will get hit.
I have 193K on my original Prius battery.
Originally Posted by The Critic
Originally Posted by Cujet
I find this discussion interesting. Up until now I had strongly considered purchasing a hybrid. I understood the risks all along. But hearing from a forum member drives the point home.
What did you learn from this discussion? To me, lack of use has always been a semi-known issue with these vehicles....especially as they get older.
That a hybrid is not for me. I tend to leave my car for months at a time. Often at airports.
Originally Posted by Cujet
I find this discussion interesting. Up until now I had strongly considered purchasing a hybrid. I understood the risks all along. But hearing from a forum member drives the point home.
What did you learn from this discussion? To me, lack of use has always been a semi-known issue with these vehicles....especially as they get older.
That a hybrid is not for me. I tend to leave my car for months at a time. Often at airports.
Originally Posted by earlyre
Originally Posted by meep
does the engine have a 12v starter, therefore not needing to boost the traction battery for a start? It may have a 12v starter, meaning this negates a traction battery conundrum.
No, one of the 2 electric motors in the transaxle acts as a starter/generator. See the YouTube video I posted earlier.
The older(2000-2012 Insight, 2003-2012 Civic Hybrid and 2003-2007 Accord Hybrid) Honda hybrids used a 12V starter to spin the gas engine if there wasn't enough power for the IMA motor to start the engine. Of course, the pre-Dual Motor Honda system isn't a true hybrid but rather a fancy ISG system using a 100-144V NiMH battery pack and a DC motor sandwiched between engine and transmission.
Originally Posted by meep
does the engine have a 12v starter, therefore not needing to boost the traction battery for a start? It may have a 12v starter, meaning this negates a traction battery conundrum.
No, one of the 2 electric motors in the transaxle acts as a starter/generator. See the YouTube video I posted earlier.
The older(2000-2012 Insight, 2003-2012 Civic Hybrid and 2003-2007 Accord Hybrid) Honda hybrids used a 12V starter to spin the gas engine if there wasn't enough power for the IMA motor to start the engine. Of course, the pre-Dual Motor Honda system isn't a true hybrid but rather a fancy ISG system using a 100-144V NiMH battery pack and a DC motor sandwiched between engine and transmission.
Originally Posted by meep
we had an 08 escape. It had the button on the left dash panel that when pressed would use the 12v batt to boost the traction batt to start. the button was hidden intentionally behind a panel. the owners manual provided detail on how to use it.
What does the owners manual say in this case? does the engine have a 12v starter, therefore not needing to boost the traction battery for a start? It may have a 12v starter, meaning this negates a traction battery conundrum.
Just from listening to a cousin that has a Preis (sp) .
The 12 VDC battery bies , nothing works .
New battery , things are happy again .
The starter is powered by the 12 VDC battery . Not the high voltage traction battery .
We had a Leif . It had both a 12 VDC battert for the traditional automotive loads ( lites , HVAC , RADIO , ETC. ) . AND THE HIGH VOLTAGE BATTERY .
we had an 08 escape. It had the button on the left dash panel that when pressed would use the 12v batt to boost the traction batt to start. the button was hidden intentionally behind a panel. the owners manual provided detail on how to use it.
What does the owners manual say in this case? does the engine have a 12v starter, therefore not needing to boost the traction battery for a start? It may have a 12v starter, meaning this negates a traction battery conundrum.
Just from listening to a cousin that has a Preis (sp) .
The 12 VDC battery bies , nothing works .
New battery , things are happy again .
The starter is powered by the 12 VDC battery . Not the high voltage traction battery .
We had a Leif . It had both a 12 VDC battert for the traditional automotive loads ( lites , HVAC , RADIO , ETC. ) . AND THE HIGH VOLTAGE BATTERY .
- Status
