EPA possibly goes after the Start/Stop System!

[edyvw]

10 billion is still 10 billion. It's not like starters are failing any sooner than starters of the early 2000's. I would argue that hybrid powertrains are harder on engines with regards to oil burning and people aren't complaining about that.

Manufacturers who haven't already will just add a button to turn it off.

I think hate is primarily coming from execution. Constant on and off at stop signs etc.
Personally, I think there were numerous other issues they could tackle before this.

 

[edyvw]

The answer is all around us. It's today's compact and sub-compact.

Here are the MPG numbers between an E46 330 and the current G42 230i.

City 18 mpg vs 26 mpg
Hwy 25 mpg vs 35 mpg
Combined 20 mpg vs 29 mpg.

G42 as far as I know packs far more weight than E46. That is my point, cars became super heavy and that comes at cost.

 

[SevenBizzos]

I had a rental that had stop/start once and couldn't wait to return it. That's been my only experience with it. Hope to never see that "feature" again.

 

[andrew_j]

OK, this will turn heads:
(MOD note - link removed)

I get an argument that, considering the number of vehicles, there are savings in CO2 emissions. An estimate is 10 billion tones annually.
But here is where the problem is: until China and India seriously tackle pollution, all that is irrelevant. On other hand, it add cost to new vehicles, we see issues with oil rings and engine mounts. It adds cost to maintenance!
It is a populism, not sure what will be an end result and whether manufacturers would act on it considering possiblilty for another administration just to bring it back.

Start/stop at nearly 200k on wife’s 18 VW Tiguan no repairs except for fuel door lock and ignition wiring harness.

Not seeing issues with it.

 

[Just Dropped In]

Never had a salesperson mention Start/Stop when I was vehicle shopping over the past few years. I quess they would have sprung it on me during signing on the dotted line. I did ask a Toyota salesman if the 4Runner I was looking at had it, and he said no. That was 2019, and yes, we ended up buying one.

 

[RooflessVW]

I think hate is primarily coming from execution. Constant on and off at stop signs etc.
Personally, I think there were numerous other issues they could tackle before this.

Really? What feature would have been easier to implement and would save more in fuel/emissions when considering entire fleets?

Start/stop is a no brainer.

No excuse for poor execution, but I have found implementation to be good inthe vehicles I have owned with the feature: Honda,Volvo, VW, Audi, and BMW.

 

[zzyzzx]

Forscan and a laptop can permanently disable this on a Ford.

 

[JeffKeryk]

The stop start in our RX450h is pretty seamless at least in comparison to some others I driven. I've worried about starter life, but that may be from all the times I've swapped out heavy GM starters in parking lots in my youth in the middle of the night.

 

[KrisZ]

The stop start in our RX450h is pretty seamless at least in comparison to some others I driven. I've worried about starter life, but that may be from all the times I've swapped out heavy GM starters in parking lots in my youth in the middle of the night.

Start/Stop on a hybrid is a totally different ball game. Your Lexus doesn’t have a traditional starter, but instead uses the inverter motor to spin up the engine to a much higher RPM than a normal starter would and then fires it up. The engine builds oil pressure before being started.

 

[edyvw]

Really? What feature would have been easier to implement and would save more in fuel/emissions when considering entire fleets?

Start/stop is a no brainer.

No excuse for poor execution, but I have found implementation to be good inthe vehicles I have owned with the feature: Honda,Volvo, VW, Audi, and BMW.

Remote starts? There is no way I could save that much fuel in Atlas as my neighbor burns on average winter morning idling her Explorer and now her GX550.
EPA encouraged S/S but didn’t encourage electric heaters that would supplement remote starts.
Add to that excessive weight due to incremental passive security gains which then is off set by worse dynamic performance. New M5 is perfect example of this insanity. Marginal gains in emissions by adding 1000lbs bcs. it has to be hybrid which than has its own recycling issues.

Than AGAIN, let’s go back what I have initially said: until China and India tackle their pollution seriously, these are irrelevant gains. In the meantime we are adding initial cost and long term maintenance cost that will drive people against mandates that might actually make sense and than reverse any gains. Part of the reason why right wing parties are gaining footing in EU are these mandates that basically eliminated affordable small car which was staple of European transportation.

 

[Bailes1992]

Start/Stop on a hybrid is a totally different ball game. Your Lexus doesn’t have a traditional starter, but instead uses the inverter motor to spin up the engine to a much higher RPM than a normal starter would and then fires it up. The engine builds oil pressure before being started.

Also worth adding that I had a 2020 BMW 5 Series with a 48v starter generator that could spin the engine up instantly. That was one of the only start/stop systems that was tolerable but I still turned it off in favour of (hopefully) timing chain longevity.

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

I have never understood the hate for start/stop.

Loss of A/C is a real annoyance in hot humid weather.

 

[Lockasiam]

affordable small car which was staple of European transportation.

At least Europe has a much better train network than North America.

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

G42 as far as I know packs far more weight than E46. That is my point, cars became super heavy and that comes at cost.

The G42 230 is 242lbs heavier than the E46 330 coupe. The G42 is a slightly larger car.

Larger rims, brakes, body, etc.

 

[Patman]

I have never understood the hate for start/stop.

Because that hesitation when you come to a stop sign is slightly dangerous

 

[Owen Lucas]

At least Europe has a much better train network than North America.

Yea, but even if the US had a great train network, I doubt it would be a game changer. I like to be in charge of where and when I travel. I took Amtrak once, all those stops, people getting on and off, so annoying.

 

[brillo54]

My hatred isn't for the start/stop, it's that the default for the system is ON. Let me decide the system status when I first start the vehicle.

 

[Lockasiam]

Yea, but even if the US had a great train network, I doubt it would be a game changer. I like to be in charge of where and when I travel. I took Amtrak once, all those stops, people getting on and off, so annoying.

Try DC metro. best there is in the country, I enjoyed riding the train much more than driving especially at 5pm on the 2/4/695. Being "In charge" isn't enjoyable when you're going 5mph

 

[edyvw]

The G42 230 is 242lbs heavier than the E46 330 coupe. The G42 is a slightly larger car.

Larger rims, brakes, body, etc.

My point was about today’s engines and lowering weight. Gains in emission reduction would be far better. 242lbs is more detrimental than lack of S/S.

 

[edyvw]

Try DC metro. best there is in the country, I enjoyed riding the train much more than driving especially at 5pm on the 2/4/695. Being "In charge" isn't enjoyable when you're going 5mph

DC metro is exception. Not as good as Chicago etc. but most America is rural. Building train network in Europe is easy considering that France is smaller than Texas. Also, Europe is far more urban.