“Entry level synthetic”
- Thread starter MrCoyote
- Start date
Yeah, pretty soon motor oil is going to be electric…
- Joined
- Nov 29, 2021
- Messages
- 5,387
Entry level API sticker lol.
It's like a Ferrari versus a Turbo Ferrari. "Which one is better" well, the Turbo Ferrari should be faster.. but both Ferraris, right?
I think that the obvious base oil distinctions by group show that the higher number base oils are better in most respects than the lower, otherwise there would be no point in their synthesis in the first place. Certainly the certifications matter, but for difficult usages the base oils matter as well. Not everyone drives a grocery getter.
If you are a supplier of base oil, you can sell a certain volume of oil to buyer X. But soon you realize you can sell some of it to buyer Y ( who markets a “entry level synthetic”).Just change some component in it so buyer X doesn’t get mad at buyer Y who is getting a better deal. I’ll bet the truth is that with plant efficiencies and volumes, synthetic oil can be manufactured a less cost than conventional. What you are witnessing is the marketers response to that fact.
Last edited:
What is wrong with GP III. Does PAO have a higher film strength?
Thanks for asking, I am not an oil expert. What little I know PAO base oil has a higher viscosity index, wider temperature range including a lower pour point. Also PAO has low points, more expensive and actually lower lubricity. Not an oil brain but Group III is one thing in my mind and Group III+ is another. Since you are smarter than me on this would you consider Mobil’s Visom and SK’s Yubase Group III or Group III+?
Shelf space. The more products, the more shelf space. The more shelf space, the more likely the consumer is to take notice of those bright yellow Pennzoil bottles (which is why they transitioned all their products into yellow bottles a couple of years ago and got away from Yellow, Bronze and Silver). In the drug store the other day I looked at Excedrin Migraine and Excedrin Extra Strength. Two different items but with the exact same active ingredients right down to the mg's of each. To my eye, no difference at all. But, with two different products and two shelf slots, the consumer may be more likely to see Excedrin and less likely to see something else. Of course, once they create different products, now they have to differentiate them from one another. I always thought the terminology "Entry Level" on Pennzoil Full Synthetic was not a good way to go because it really makes it sound like a lesser product than the Platinum lineup. Perhaps "Traditional" synthetic since it seems to be a Group III crude-based product as opposed to GTL-based?
don't those labels mean oils meet the minimum requirements for those approvals...some of the more expensive motor oils may do more but you'll have to decide if the "more" is something you need or want your oil to do...or if it in fact does anything more...
Bill
Bill
- Joined
- Dec 30, 2006
- Messages
- 29,558
Excedrine Migraine works like a charm!
I tend to get migraines sometimes due to allergies. I always keep it unhand.uh, no. Most prefer the 458 to the 488 as the 458 is naturally aspirated. Better noise, throttle response, and power curve from NA engines.
I frequent BITOG and I find a lot of it confusing . I guess it helps if you really give a **** .
Yes , it's marketing . SOMETHING has to make one oil stand out over another . At least in someone's mind .
- Joined
- Jul 11, 2014
- Messages
- 4,118
Entry level oil..... API/ilsac don't mean much to some of us...
Assuming a simple 5w-30usa requirement... plenty of choices at local stores. Want better, you look for Dexos...which eliminates numerous SP/GF6 oils at the walmart and local autopart store. Not too many conventional or blend choices here, and maybe even some entry-level synthetics don't show up:
Then, you think that you want better,.... so, you pick an HTO-06 oil which brings it down to fewer choices.
Or maybe you live in a cold climate, and experience slow cranks and startup clatter, and decide to fill a bunch of shot glasses with numerous oils from the local store and toss them in your freezer.... low and behold, you find that some turn to molasses while other pour at different rates, and pick one that seems to not clatter or barely clatter. Or, you just try a different oil at every OCI and find one that doesn't crank as slow or clatter or tick as much, or whatever, and become a brand fanboy!
And, it, the choices, goes on for every imaginable 'requirement' or known issues with every engine.
Marketing volume is easy. You just need to push the needs of every consumer. As you see often enough here, many just want the cheapest possible oil. Some might add other requirement, like synthetic, and want the cheapest 'synthetic' oil, or the cheapest Dexos oil, or the cheapest ...cater to the consumer for the dividend!
Over the years, I've heard many claim that their quicklube was using Mobil1 oil... most of these foolish consumers didn't know that they were getting Mobil conventional or blends, without the "1". Others were smart enough to ask for synthetic, and got Mobil super synthetic, without the "1". Or, they were getting a locally blended oil that was using a licensed bulk formula for whatever brand. Its truly laughable. Perception!
Also doesn't help that the companies, cashing in on PTBarnum, change their labels just about yearly, and product range/type... all too often.
Assuming a simple 5w-30usa requirement... plenty of choices at local stores. Want better, you look for Dexos...which eliminates numerous SP/GF6 oils at the walmart and local autopart store. Not too many conventional or blend choices here, and maybe even some entry-level synthetics don't show up:
Then, you think that you want better,.... so, you pick an HTO-06 oil which brings it down to fewer choices.
Or maybe you live in a cold climate, and experience slow cranks and startup clatter, and decide to fill a bunch of shot glasses with numerous oils from the local store and toss them in your freezer.... low and behold, you find that some turn to molasses while other pour at different rates, and pick one that seems to not clatter or barely clatter. Or, you just try a different oil at every OCI and find one that doesn't crank as slow or clatter or tick as much, or whatever, and become a brand fanboy!
And, it, the choices, goes on for every imaginable 'requirement' or known issues with every engine.
Marketing volume is easy. You just need to push the needs of every consumer. As you see often enough here, many just want the cheapest possible oil. Some might add other requirement, like synthetic, and want the cheapest 'synthetic' oil, or the cheapest Dexos oil, or the cheapest ...cater to the consumer for the dividend!
Over the years, I've heard many claim that their quicklube was using Mobil1 oil... most of these foolish consumers didn't know that they were getting Mobil conventional or blends, without the "1". Others were smart enough to ask for synthetic, and got Mobil super synthetic, without the "1". Or, they were getting a locally blended oil that was using a licensed bulk formula for whatever brand. Its truly laughable. Perception!
Also doesn't help that the companies, cashing in on PTBarnum, change their labels just about yearly, and product range/type... all too often.
Last edited:
It would sure be nice if the oil bottles were to give breakdown - even if it was just to the groups: group III 60%, group IV 30%, etc.. Sure most consumers wouldn't know much about it at first, but they would probably google or join this site and learn. It would help cut through some of the marketing spin. Overall I think it would help them sell more synthetic oil because perception would increase the notion that conventional oil is "bad" oil.
If it was a food product maybe, otherwise it ain't going to happen unless someone blended a pricey, true PAO/ POE synthetic and wished to advertise it as such for market advantage.
Then add the consideration that 99.997% of consumers have no clue even what a the 0w/5w/10w
indicate - nevermind base oil.
Yes but that’s not really what defines the performance of the finished product. The approvals, specifications and licenses do that. And even between oils with the same approval or license it’s not a fait accompli that the one with 6% more PAO will perform better. For that you can only go by what the blender tells you.
Similar threads
