Engine worn out and cracked head, oil related?

[Adamwest]

I just found out that my 2001 Tundra with the 4.7 V8 has a cracked head. Also, it just started knocking a bit in the last couple of weeks. With the engine torn down, I was shown the scoring in the cylinders and was told that it had been driven hard and the bottom end was basically worn out. This, with the head problem has me debating between a rebuilt engine and a used one. I bought this as a certified pre-owned (used really is more blunt) from a Toyota dealer.

It has 206k miles and much of that has been in the desert at fairly high speeds. It seems that may be a bit soon to wear out since it has had oil changes at 3k-4k while on dino and at 7k-8k on syn. Any thoughts on this? It's not like I can go gripe to Toyota that the truck they made only got 206k miles, perhaps I was expecting to much. Any input would be appreciated.

 

[friendly_jacek]

Originally Posted By: Adamwest


It has 206k miles and much of that has been in the desert at fairly high speeds. It seems that may be a bit soon to wear out since it has had oil changes at 3k-4k while on dino and at 7k-8k on syn. Any thoughts on this? It's not like I can go gripe to Toyota that the truck they made only got 206k miles, perhaps I was expecting to much. Any input would be appreciated.


I would say this type of service requires at least xW40 oil. Anything less than this accelerated wear. Now Toyota has a disclaimer that the recommended oil in a car manual is only good for average service and heavier oils should be used for higher temps. Maybe Toyota saw more cases like yours?

 

[aquariuscsm]

I`m curious,what brand/type/weight oils were used? What oil filters? That`s weird,I`ve never ever seen a Toyota engine fail.

 

[aquariuscsm]

Originally Posted By: friendly_jacek
Originally Posted By: Adamwest


It has 206k miles and much of that has been in the desert at fairly high speeds. It seems that may be a bit soon to wear out since it has had oil changes at 3k-4k while on dino and at 7k-8k on syn. Any thoughts on this? It's not like I can go gripe to Toyota that the truck they made only got 206k miles, perhaps I was expecting to much. Any input would be appreciated.


I would say this type of service requires at least xW40 oil. Anything less than this accelerated wear. Now Toyota has a disclaimer that the recommended oil in a car manual is only good for average service and heavier oils should be used for higher temps. Maybe Toyota saw more cases like yours?


My car`s FSM sort`ve has the same advice........10W30 should be used for fuel economy only and 10W40-20W50 if racing or driving at extended high speeds.

 

[Colt45ws]

I would say the engine severely overheated at some point and the head cracked from that. The severe overheat would also make the pistons expand and score the walls, the beginnings of them seizing up.

 

[Pablo]

Originally Posted By: Onmo'Eegusee
I would say the engine severely overheated at some point and the head cracked from that. The severe overheat would also make the pistons expand and score the walls, the beginnings of them seizing up.


Yes, doesn't really sound oil related at all.

 

[rpn453]

Originally Posted By: aquariuscsm
I`m curious,what brand/type/weight oils were used? What oil filters? That`s weird,I`ve never ever seen a Toyota engine fail.


I've seen two fail. Both had likely been sold because engine damage made failure inevitable. The first was in an '89 Corolla that my buddy bought used with about 100k miles. Shortly after buying it, he started hearing a light knock. The knock got progressively louder until, about a year later, the engine let go. The second was in a '98 Tercel that the same guys' girlfriend bought used from a Toyota dealership. It had only about 30k miles when she bought it but my buddy could never get it to idle as smoothly as he felt it should. It started having oil and coolant consumption issues at around 80k miles and a teardown indicated severe wear, like it had been run without oil at some point.

I think the engine was already damaged at the time of purchase.

 

[river_rat]

Originally Posted By: friendly_jacek
...Now Toyota has a disclaimer that the recommended oil in a car manual is only good for average service and heavier oils should be used for higher temps.

Don't wanna hijack but is this actually in print somewhere? Website?

 

[friendly_jacek]

Originally Posted By: river_rat
Originally Posted By: friendly_jacek
...Now Toyota has a disclaimer that the recommended oil in a car manual is only good for average service and heavier oils should be used for higher temps.

Don't wanna hijack but is this actually in print somewhere? Website?


Yes, this is actually in print in every new Toyota car manual.

See this thread:
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubb...011#Post1566011

 

[Adamwest]

I have not overheated it actually, though I thought about that. Until the very end I was impressed by how well it ran and really thought I would get another 200k out of it. How quickly things change....

I did not see anything in the manual about using a higher viscosity though I am aware of Valvoline's Australian website info. During the hottest parts of the year, synthetic Valvoline, M1, and PP in both 5w30 and 10w30 were used. The filters were varied-Napa, Bosch, and sometimes generic, but the oil appeared very clean coming out and there was not really any visible gunk in the engine after being torn down-sorry, I didn't have my camera. I don't want to stoke the thin vs thick debate, but I was under the impression that sticking with the manufacturers recommendations would suffice. Funny thing is, last year I was concerned about my little beater Tercel handling the heat and wear, not the Tundra.

 

[friendly_jacek]

Originally Posted By: aquariuscsm
That`s weird,I`ve never ever seen a Toyota engine fail.


Many years ago, my friend had 1990 Tercel and used Mobil 1 exclusively. He had some oil consumption problems, especially driving fast on Hwy (3 speed AT). At 100,000 miles or so, engine seized in the middle of nowhere in midwest. He must have consumed most oil during the several hundreds of miles trip. He insisted oil was OK when he started the trip.

 

[Colt45ws]

I still dont think any of that could be caused by oil choice. Its possible the crack was due to a bad casting or something, but that still leaves the scoring, unless the previous owner liked to run the Baja with no air filter.

 

[Adamwest]

My '88 Tercel has the 3 speed auto as well, believe me, I keep an eye on the fluid levels even though consumption isn't much of an issue at 110k miles.

The engine screams like crazy at 85 mph and does use more at those speeds than around town, but not wanting to be stranded keeps me on top of it.

 

[Steve S]

Originally Posted By: aquariuscsm
I`m curious,what brand/type/weight oils were used? What oil filters? That`s weird,I`ve never ever seen a Toyota engine fail.
They do fail.

 

[river_rat]

Thanks jacek

 

[FZ1]

May have been damaged when you purchased it.

 

[Adamwest]

I was wondering about that. Despite being certified, it was a lease return that was from a contractor of some sort. I think garage doors maybe. Anyway, I now have my concerns that it may have been run really hard for the first 60k. But, like I wrote before, it ran very, very well for the next 145k.

We have used it for towing, hauling, and most of all commuting. The highways out here don't have any traffic to speak of and 80-85 mph is pretty typical.

I suspect the heat and the 3,000 ft elevation change on the 120 mile daily commute may have something to do with it also.

 

[BuickGN]

With both a cracked head and scored cylinders, it definitely makes a case for severe overheat. It's not to say that a top of the line synthetic might have helped a little with the cylinder scoring but still, not the oil's fault. Where was the head cracked? Was there any chance of a coolant leak from the head into the combustion chamber or oil?

I will always go up a grade if the engine is consistently run harder than normal or if you live in a hot climate. If a 30wt is acceptable in a cold northern climate, how could a 40 wt not be acceptable in a very hot climate?

 

[Adamwest]

The leak was from the cylinder on the driver's side closest to the front grill and it would spill coolant into the exhaust. The oil was not effected and it did not go through combustion. Created a white, kind of sweet smelling steamy exhaust.

I do think the 40wt would be acceptable. I read the article by Dr. A and was thinking that with it being liquid cooled it wouldn't make much difference and the coolant temp gauge never really got close to the red zone. It does not have an oil temp gauge, but the pressure always seemed fine.

Do you think it could have overheated early in its existence and just finally showed noticeable effects?

 

[Colt45ws]

Okay, so lets back up. Whats the timeline of the engines death? When did you notice it was not running right and what were the symptoms, etc?
Stock oil pressure on many (most?) modern vehicles are fake, that is if the oil pressure is higher than something like 5 or 7 psi the gauge reads in the middle, always.