Engine rattle at startup - Toyota REFUSES to fix

[KrisZ]

It is a good idea to educate yourself about this problem. This way you will know if the dealer is trying to fix the problem or just feeding you a bunch of [censored].
However, going to the dealer and trying to "educate" them, or telling them what is wrong with the car, just because you read it on some internet forum, will get you absolutely nowhere with a dealer. Dealers hate customers that "know" what is wrong with their car, especially when the problem is elusive.

The safest route is to just play "dumb". Say that you hear a noise from the engine compartment that was not there before and you want them to take a look at it. Sometimes you have to let things run their course. You may think that you're getting ahead of the game, but you may end up backpedaling instead.

 

[chasdaman]

Good morning KrisZ,

Excellent point, and I appreciate it, but I'm still very interested in having my questions answered.

 

[KrisZ]

Originally Posted By: chasdaman
Good morning KrisZ,

Excellent point, and I appreciate it, but I'm still very interested in having my questions answered.


You will have to wait for more knowledgeable people to chime in. It may take a while but I'm sure someone will answer your questions. For starters you can PM the OP, looks like he did some research so that would be a good start.

 

[chasdaman]

After letting it sit overnight, the noise this morning was perhaps 30-40% less severe (less noisy) than it was prior to them replacing my intake cam gear. They told me the actual noise producer is a spring, and that in any case, there's no damage occurring to meaningful engine internals. It's just an acoustic phenomenon. Needless to say, I hope they're right.

 

[91344George]

Originally Posted By: chasdaman
They told me the actual noise producer is a spring, and that in any case, there's no damage occurring to meaningful engine internals. It's just an acoustic phenomenon. Needless to say, I hope they're right.




Will the dealer and TMUSA put this claim in "writing"? If not it doesn't mean anything.

 

[chasdaman]

So far, I've received no documentation from the dealership regarding this work. I plan on asking for it soon, though. From the sound of it, they were working with Toyota/Scion corporate on my issue. I believe they wanted to corporate again before finalizing paperwork, but they weren't clear on that, I'm only guessing from slim evidence. Corporate wanted to know if the new intake cam gear fixed the problem. I told them this morning that No, it did not. But that the noise is quieter by perhaps 1/3 and happens in exactly the same circumstances as before, namely, engine & oil warmed up fully, then sat for least 30 minutes and restarted. That still holds true.

 

[VVTinme]

I got a phone call back yesterday evening from the Scion customer service rep. with whom I've been dealing. He basically didn't have anything new to tell me at that point in time, only that he was in basically the same boat that I am in as far as trying to understand what happened with Monday's appointment. More blame is being put on SE Toyota, per usual. I told him as I have before that I don't care who's fault it is, I just want Toyota to stop wasting my time. I went on further to reiterate that I am giving them one last shot to fix the car, and if they fail to do so, I want them to buy the car back. He's reply was that Toyota doesn't have a voluntary buyback program, and if that's the route I wish to take, I would have to go through arbitration.

With my employer's legal services still out of reach due to the holidays I didn't want to press the issue too hard due to the finality of it, and not knowing if I've satisfied the necessary burden to have a strong case for a vehicle replacement. Arbitration can be used for lesser outcomes, but in this case, I have no more patience to deal with this; I want to switch to a different brand that doesn't feel so entrenched in the American economy as to be able to sit idly by while its customers are wholly dissatisfied.

 

[91344George]

VVT:


It is obvious that the SE zone rep is not interested in actually resolving the issues and giving customer satisfaction.

Like I said before you need to snail mail RRR TMUSA CEO .

You must put all demands to paper and ink and the RRR is outside confirmation of this when communicating with corporate.

Verbally and or e mail communication with SE Toyota is not going to solve your problem at this point.

Make sure you put this in writing to TMUSA. It is clear to me that the SE district rep is giving you the run around and delay treatment hoping to wear you down into not doing anything.

The longer you wait to snail mail the CEO RRR the less chance you will have of resolution without legal recourse.

 

[partspro]

I have not been following this thread so I read every post all 8 pages. My heart goes out to you VVTinme. I agree with the snail mail receipt required letter to the CEO. Bad service just sucks and there simply isn't an excuse. My company uses and outside resource to phone call customers, they rate the service 1 through 10. What they don't tell the customer is that only 9 and 10 count. Everything else score 0. Poor Customer satisfaction scores trump everything (increased sales, improved margins etc) when bonus is determined. If you don't get 9 and 10s no bonus.

My only concern in following the legal recourse is that Toyota may just completely refuse to discuss the issue with you once attorneys get involved.

 

[odie]

Give this person a try , http://pressroom.toyota.com/article_display.cfm?article_id=2309 . [email protected] . Tell her of your dilemma , may get the wheels rollin' . Keep all emails sent and received for records . Good Luck

 

[odie]

Or this person ? http://pressroom.toyota.com/article_display.cfm?article_id=2307 . Try [email protected] .

 

[frankm]

Glad I own only a couple of old, out-of-warranty vehicles. (1997 Maxima; 2002 Protege). New cars nowadays sound like too much grief and hassle! Yikes.

 

[MrCritical]

Originally Posted By: odie
Or this person ? http://pressroom.toyota.com/article_display.cfm?article_id=2307 . Try [email protected] .


Good ideas, but these folks CANNOT override the zone reps bosses.

 

[odie]

Helped us by contacting Nancy Fein several times . Sent pics with explanations of the oil leaks from the '08 Yaris sedan , 2010 hatchback , and a friends 2010 hatch . Ended up getting the PLATINUM extended warranty for free . Took close to 6 months to get it . Being persistent can help .

 

[Mr Nice]

Sounds like you should just get rid of it.

 

[MrCritical]

Originally Posted By: LT4 Vette
Sounds like you should just get rid of it.


I don't think it's economically feasible with the amount of time he's owned it. What he needs is his car repaired properly, or his money back.

 

[TX_ELISE]

Hi everyone,

Just wanted to quickly jump in here as I was doing a search on the same issue and found this thread. I have a 2010 Lotus which is powered by the Toyota 2ZZ-GE engine. The videos I viewed here show EXACTLY the phenomenon I experiece at cold start-up from time-to-time.

In fact, on Lotustalk.com there are several threads regarding this phenomenon. Over the past few years, a significant number of individual have posted and have stated they have this same issue. A couple of techs have stated "they all do this sometime." In fact it's been deemed the "angry alligator" on the Lotus forum.

In a recent post, a site sponsor and I beleive is someone who also works at or owns BOE fabrication (Lotus performance engineering and service speacialists) stated the following regarding this phenomenon:

"Sometimes the intake cam phaser fails to lock at shut down or it leaks down and takes a moment to fill with oil... In either case, not a big deal.... It's the sound of quality! There are two primary components in the cam timing phaser. It's supposed to lock when motor is off. If it doesn't lock, it rattles until oil pressure builds. If sufficient oil remains in the phaser it will not rattle so hard even if it doesn't lock. It's not something to be worried about." I probably shouldn't have mentioned the leakdown part since that implies a problem. There's not a problem. Just forget about that bit and enjoy the car."

Just thought I would pass this along. Please let me know if you have any questions regarding content about this topic on Lotustalk.com.

Regards!

 

[Hokiefyd]

Nice first post, and welcome to BITOG!

 

[MrCritical]

I don't see Lotus owner's falling for that, any more than you did.

Sounds like a defect with the cam phaser they don't intend on fixing....

 

[Nick R]

Originally Posted By: MrCritical
I don't see Lotus owner's falling for that, any more than you did.

Sounds like a defect with the cam phaser they don't intend on fixing....


Yeah, at least GM fixed the cam phaser problem in the Equinox 2.4L.