My 2011 Scion tC has been suffering from an all-too-common problem that seems to affect almost all of Toyota's new engines: A rattle at startup due to a faulty VVTi mechanism. I've had my car in to two different dealers where I have successfully duplicated the issue only to be told that it's normal cold-start noise. A representative of Southeast Toyota even inspected my car and gave me a similar-sounding answer, telling me that the noise is "normal." Here is what it sounds like.
It's obvious to me, however, that this is not the case as Toyota has a TSB out for the exact issue I'm experiencing that covers all affected Toyota vehicles. Scion has no comparable bulletin even after over a year of the new tC being on the market. I've been experiencing this issue since around a month or so of ownership which is absolutely unacceptable for a brand new car.
I'm supposed to be meeting with the same SE Toyota representative sometime in the near future to have him look at the car again, but I don't have my hopes up that anything will be fixed. By refusing to even acknowledge the issue I believe Toyota has found a way to prevent lemon law from applying since I believe it requires them to at least attempt to repair the car before it can come into play. I believe this issue is diminishing the value of the car as much as it diminishes my pleasure in driving it and I want Toyota to either fix it or buy it back. Does anyone have any advice in getting Toyota to do something about it?
I should add that this is only one out of several issues going on with the car; the build quality seems to be nothing short of abysmal.
Engine rattle at startup - Toyota REFUSES to fix
- Thread starter VVTinme
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try another toy rep besides the one you are trying to approach and see if you are able to get your problem resolved.
I have my fair share of goods and bads when dealing with those "so-called" rep, most of them are quite self-serving and don't deserve their jobs; while some of them (some Hondas, not all of them though) work alongside with their customers to get the issues resolved.
I'd approach another dealership/file a formal complaint to Toy America and see how far you can go (if I were you)..
q.
Since you know what the problem is and what the remedy is according to Toyota put it in writing to Scion asking for an explanation why they will not repair an obvious fault that Toyota has recognized in the TSB your referenced.
That should work.
NHGuy: It seems they'd prefer you to buy a Toyota, become disenfranchised with the brand, and buy something else the next time. This is my 5th Toyota product and my last.
Quest: I'm not sure how many representatives Toyota has in the southeast in this particular job role--it may just be the one guy who gets shuttled from place to place.
Quest & Caterham: I've contacted Scion via phone multiple times to that effect and have been told that they will not override what their dealers say and cannot do anything for me at this point in time. I don't know what effect a written complaint would have versus several oral ones.
write a formal letter of complaint, and see if you can also present your video material along (DV tape? burn it on to a small DVD-R?) in your letter (registered) to Toy America...you may be able to seek/search out whose high up the chair that has the power to deal with your situation, send it there and make sure someone signed the register letter off (keep that as a record) and then go from there.
In your letter, state that you are the original owner of your Scion, your VIN number, copy of your purchase of ownership document and list (in clear and concise fashion) that when you first detected this problem, who you spoke to (which dealership, what service writer/manager, which SE regional Toy rep, etc.) and so on and so forth. Be clear/concise and list the facts and ask for service/repair.
If this fails to capture someone's attention high up and above, then resort to calling your local TeeVee station to make it "big".
They will not ignore something as serious/formal as what I proposed to you.
(** through the 2 decades of dealing with reps, I have not failed to capture one's attention based on what I listed above...and never have to resort to taking this matter to the TeeVee station, so good luck to you**)
BTW: I have had my share of bad reps that will not acknowledge problems, only to threaten them with someone high and above them that they would bend over and get things right (rather reluctantly). Again: some of these reps do not deserve their job, and that's how I see it.
(**what other prime examples I had dealt with?! oh yeah! V-doubleW of A**)
Don't despair, it's not the end of the road yet.
Q.
Quest: I'll do that. I'll pick a good, cold day (which exacerbates the issue) and make my own recording to hopefully a greater effect than that example one. The engine rattles anytime the car has sat for at least an hour but it does so especially loudly when it's very cold out. This weekend it's supposed to be 25° in the morning which ought to be perfect.
Why not sell the car or trade it in if you are unhappy.
Was this a problem with the older gen Scion tC ?
Originally Posted By: LT4 Vette
Why not sell the car or trade it in if you are unhappy.
Was this a problem with the older gen Scion tC ?
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Well it sounds awful and if that is normal I want to know how bad it has to be not to be normal . That is ridiculous. I agree with the above posters take it as far as you have to to get it fixed don't back down and let them win. It [censored] me off to see [censored] like that happening to new cars. It just ain't right.
Where are you located in NC? Any chance you could have Rick Hendrick Toyota/Scion in Fayetteville look at it? I've bought two Toyotas from them and they've been a fantastic dealer to work with.
My other thought is the TSB does not cover the Scion tC. It's possible that the specific issue in the TSB was remedied at the factory prior to the tC getting that engine. The noise you are hearing may be something else, like a timing chain tensioner losing oil pressure. They don't appear to really want to diagnose the problem, but at the same time, the problem may not be what's in the TSB.
If everything else fails, write a letter to Toyota Japan, that should stir up the pot. Make sure you mention that you are a repeat Toyota customer and that your business will go to the competition (I would mention Hyundai or Kia, as these brands are perceived as biggest threats to Toyota) if this issue is not resolved.
If that doesn't help at least you will know not to buy Toyota product again.
The only way you're going to get another service rep is to go out of the service zone. There's probably only one rep per zone. And zones cover hundreds of miles.
I hate to give you the bad news. Your chances of getting a satisfactory end to your problem over the zone service reps head are slim and none. Another dealer is probably going to have to call the same zone rep to authorize teardown at some point. Leaving the zone and going to another dealer might work, if the rep in your zone hasn't attached his notes in Toyota's national database to your VIN.
Originally Posted By: KrisZ
If everything else fails, write a letter to Toyota Japan, that should stir up the pot. Make sure you mention that you are a repeat Toyota customer and that your business will go to the competition (I would mention Hyundai or Kia, as these brands are perceived as biggest threats to Toyota) if this issue is not resolved.
If that doesn't help at least you will know not to buy Toyota product again.
Originally Posted By: 91344George
Originally Posted By: KrisZ
If everything else fails, write a letter to Toyota Japan, that should stir up the pot. Make sure you mention that you are a repeat Toyota customer and that your business will go to the competition (I would mention Hyundai or Kia, as these brands are perceived as biggest threats to Toyota) if this issue is not resolved.
If that doesn't help at least you will know not to buy Toyota product again.
Originally Posted By: VVTinme
By refusing to even acknowledge the issue I believe Toyota has found a way to prevent lemon law from applying since I believe it requires them to at least attempt to repair the car before it can come into play. I believe this issue is diminishing the value of the car as much as it diminishes my pleasure in driving it and I want Toyota to either fix it or buy it back. Does anyone have any advice in getting Toyota to do something about it?
Originally Posted By: Bladecutter
Take all of this to your lemon lawyer, and have him run the process. You will have your choice of full replacement value, or a different car.
Bill in Utah
Staff member
If they tell you its "normal" then go out to their lot, find the same vehicle with the same engine and start it. If it does not make the noise then ask them to start another.
If the ones on the lot do not make the noise then tell them you want yours to be "broken" like the ones on the lot.
You would be surprised how well that works. I've done it a few times for friends and once with my 1995 truck when it was new.
Bill
What's the drive train warranty? 100k? If so don't worry about it for awhile, if it blows its their problem.
Doesn't really sound like much to me in the video, maybe the quality isn't the best.
I'd strongly recommend either having the dealer do the oil changes, or using an OE Toyota oil filter and keeping the receipts. That way they can't claim an aftermarket filter caused it. Also make sure whatever oil you are using meets Toyota's spec.
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Bill in Utah
Staff member
Toyota I think is still with 60k or 5 years whichever comes up first.
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