Engine noise after oil filter replacement

Status
Not open for further replies.
The fact that this is the correct Champ Lab filter application for this model, and that Champ also makes the ACDelco application, makes this denial of warranty service seem very bogus to me. Sounds like SOP (pulling the tsb) when any similar noise is noted by the dealer. Based on the pics on ebay this does appear to be an ecore application. Not going to repeat the MMW Act information and links, but the FTC Alert previously posted by stephen is worth reading.

You also might find this linked thread helpful in your effort to get the issue fixed. In that thread the OP ended up going to a different dealer and the issue was fixed under warranty. That said, unlike Ford, don't know if all GM dealers follow the same denial procedure. Fwiw, imo you are on solid ground here with regard to getting the engine fixed or replaced under warranty, but it could be a long process. Good Luck.
 
Do you still have the actual suspect filter or pics/video from dealer when they determined it was oil filter related? I REALLY hope you have that filter. If it is still on vehicle do not remove it until talking with a lawyer. If /when it is removed by someone have it fully recorded on video.
 
From passed experience I firmly believe that GM is by far the worst manufacture with respect to warranty approval. You must document all, cross the Ts and dot the Is and have a video and if possible a witness or two. GM will do everything to divert fault where a warranty claim is involved.
 
jbtierney15 - Welcom to the site; sorry it's for such a bad topic!

I think all of us that have chimed in agree that, generally, you're getting screwed. I'm not going to duplicate what's been said; it's all sound. What helps is that you did not use a "non-approved filter" from Champ, so you have some addtional leverage.

Here is what I would suggest. This is based upon my personal experience many years ago of starting litigation against Ford via my state "lemon laws" in IN, with the assitance of the IN Atty General Office.

1) use the info we've given you, including printouts of the M/M act to speak with the dealer general mangager or owner. Remind them that GM is the warranter (not the dealership), and that you'll need to work with GM and not just the dealership. Often, a well prepared customer can avert further issues. If that fails, move forward. Remind GM that they have the burden of proof to show the filter is specifically at fault. This means the actual cause of failure must be determined; I would presume some sort of engine teardown is going to be needed. The mere use of an aftermarket filter is NOT proof of failure. The failure mode must be proven, and then cause determined. If GM can PROVE (not just suggest or insinuate) the Champ filter is the cause, then move to step #2 below. If they do NOT have sure, positive proof, then they must honor the warranty. And I would not hesitate to insist that the next conversation will include your State Atty General in regard to their denial if no proof exists, which would make move to both step #2 and #3 together. The mere presence of a TSB from GM is NOT proof of aftermarket filter causation. That is a great leverage tool them use, but it does not hold up in court or in arbitration. The need solid evidence, not conjecture. If the filter is truly at fault, then you can divert your claim to Champ and get them to pay.

2) contact Champion about the failed filter claims. Most all companies that warrant their products, have specific criteria to follow, including examining evidence. If GM is going to blame Champ for filter failure, then you'll want Champ involved. The can put pressure on GM that you cannot. Many times there is a window of opportunity that will close if you wait too long; get in with Champ now! Let them assist you. They will want to see the filter, the engine, the supposed evidence, and then they will speak with GM.
(NOTE: there is one caveot here; we are assuming that the article is genuine. If it is a counterfiet item, then hopefully you'll have the receipt from the place of purchase, and then you'll have to drag them into this ... Often, this isnt' the case though)

3) if step #2 fails, then it's time to get with your state Atty General office; most all of them have some form of consumer protection division. They can often help as well, but they most often will NOT intervene until you've tried and failed the above two steps (saves them time from bogus causes, understandably). They are slow as well, so don't hesitate to get them soon if it seems #1 and #2 are not moving along.

4) only after those are exhausted will you need a lawyer you'd have to pay for.


The upside is that you'll likely get the repairs covered at no cost to you.
The downside is that you're in for a long, drawn out battle. It can take weeks if not months to get this resolved. All while your ride is sitting idle in some dealer lot. In fact, it could take months to years if they really want to fight about it, and all while you get to make payments on a vehicle, while it depreciates.

Ford was stiff-arming me big time until I got our State Atty General involved, and after one letter from them, I was given full purchase value on my car as a trade in allowance toward another car (minus mileage allowance for what I had put on it; not a bad deal overall).

Bottom line is that you are not really prepared for this; this is a David/Goliath thing. But, you don't have to fight alone. Get the other big entites involved (Champ and Atty Gen), and GM will likely have a much different tune.
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: dnewton3

(NOTE: there is one caveot here; we are assuming that the article is genuine. If it is a counterfiet item, then hopefully you'll have the receipt from the place of purchase, and then you'll have to drag them into this ... Often, this isnt' the case though)



Excellent points here that will help the OP in his quest for warranty work.
Though it is possible, the chance of a Champ filter being counterfeited is small. Some other high end filters or name brand filters, yes. I actually did see a counterfeit Fram oil filter way back in the early '80s. The inside center tube was made from a can of peaches that had Chinese markings on it. The filtering "media" was actually cotton balls. Chinese counterfeiting has been around a long time and I'm surprised when it happens to an oil filter where the profit margin would be so low.
I hope we hear the end result of this. If the filter is a genuine Champ filter, GM might have some egg on their face when they claim that this was an inferior filter, when at the same time AC Delco filters come from the same factory.
 
Did they actually tear down your engine? If not I would take the car to a different dealer, you may not even need an engine or you may get a new engine with out any hassle at a different dealership especially it you take it somewhere that needs the work.
 
I wonder if the OP will ever return? This seems like the type of sensational first post that could be trolling. I would think if he really wanted opinions he would have posted some kind of response. I realize it's only been 1.5 days, so perhaps I'm jumping the gun.
 
Last edited:
Lots of great advice.. but my 2 cents worth..
get a hungry attorney!

I would get the engine torn down and diagnosed WITH pictures as documentation from an independant shop that will be willing to goto court on your behalf and be willing to be grilled by the defense.
I wouldn't necessarily goto another dealer, as IMHO they're all in cahoots with each other and might try to sway a diagnostic.

Wouldn't the dealership have to prove (beyond a shadow of a doubt) that the filter caused the issue in the first place?
Remember the service writer/advisor/supervisor is nothing but a salesman who can talk techno lingo and is more than willing to twist a technician's words into something else.

Definetely have every single thing no matter how insignificant documented, even the down to the attitude of the tech and/or service writer. It's your opinion, but nobody will remember how they were feeling x months later. this could come in handy as to their unwillingness to want to help.

And never let that filter out of your sight. if Champion labs wants it, they need to come & see it or you need to go there.
and have everything documented with video during the cut open.

Good Luck.
 
Hi All, it has been a while but I wanted to update you on the latest in this ongoing - soon to be over saga.

I'll try to make a long story short: I ended up reaching out to Champ to file a claim, which in my untrained view was a long shot. I began that process a couple weeks ago by mailing the oil filter and suupporting documents to Fram.

Today I heard back from the case management company handling the file (representing Fram) and they told me that testing did in fact show the oil filter was defective!! They have agreed to pay for all repairs associated with the damaged filter. They are not replacing it with a like-kind engine with they found at M&M Auto. I have some reservations about this like-kind engine as I'm not getting much info on it other than the mileage (33K - mine had 54K) and they have it a Grade A part (which is probably just mileage related). Also, that it came from a buick enclave. I spoke to both M&M and my dealer and they assured me this won't be a problem. It does have a 1 yr / 12K warranty, which is about what i have left on my 5yr powertrain warranty.

I already have the check in hand and the dealership has order the engine. I was fortunate enough to borrow an in-laws car during this time, but was able to get 10 bucks a day as an 'inconvenience payment' as well to help pay for the truck's monthly payment. Hopefully i will have my truck back in a week or two.

Thank you all for your comments and guidance!!

jbt
 
That is good news, and I think you did about as well as one could under the circumstances. And, your patience with help from your bil paid off.

According to google search views, the Champ PH48 used is an ecore design application. I can't tell with certainty if spec'd OEM ACDelco PF48 is also an ecore design or a Classic design but afaik without an E suffix it would be classic construction. In any case, folks can reach their own conclusion regarding the filter construction. But, it is commendable that Champ/Fram/Rank took responsibility.

Thanks for following up.
 
Originally Posted By: jbtierney15
Hi All, it has been a while but I wanted to update you on the latest in this ongoing - soon to be over saga.

I'll try to make a long story short: I ended up reaching out to Champ to file a claim, which in my untrained view was a long shot. I began that process a couple weeks ago by mailing the oil filter and supporting documents to Fram.

Today I heard back from the case management company handling the file (representing Fram) and they told me that testing did in fact show the oil filter was defective!!


Did FRAM say exactly what the defect was?
 
Originally Posted By: sayjac
....

According to google search views, the Champ PH48 used is an ecore design application. I can't tell with certainty if spec'd OEM ACDelco PF48 is also an ecore design or a Classic design but afaik without an E suffix it would be classic construction .......


My 2011 Silverado uses the PF48. I have never seen this Delco in ecore trim in any parts store. Don't believe I'll be buying one if I do see it after this story.
 
This is encouraging in that first off a big player has admitted to a fault, and secondly, willing to serve proper restitution to a little player. Great news and i hope all works out well for you.
thumbsup2.gif
 
Originally Posted By: 4ever4d
This is encouraging in that first off a big player has admitted to a fault, and secondly, willing to serve proper restitution to a little player. Great news and i hope all works out well for you.
thumbsup2.gif


Yeah, but its still a no win for them. The haters have a reason to attack.

I had a similar issue with a Napa Gold. CEL went on for a vvt failure, shortly after an oil light! All of a sudden! and the oil was full what the..

I swapped the filter with a (oh the irony) cheap FRAM, problem solved. I got it right away so there was no damage (well, its still running 30k later)
 
Quote:
Did FRAM say exactly what the defect was?

That is a good question, though doubtful we will ever know. What we do know though is it was an ecore. And, it seems the equivalent oem the PF48 is of classic construction. Conclusion?

And, interesting how some GM ACDelco applications have been ecore. It seems some GM may have been ahead of the curve when the ecore was introduced, saying the wanted continued classic construction of they weren't going to use ACDelco.
 
Interesting. I know that Fram / Champ get a bad rap around here, but it is very commendable that they stood by their product and are willing to step up in the repair expense.
 
In Wally yesterday looking at oil and filters and noticed some AC Delco filters on the shelves. Checked out the spec'd OEM PF48 and it is indeed a classic ACDelco filter design, not an ecore like the PH48 used in this thread.

Right next to it was an ACDelco PF47E, which is an ecore design filter.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top Bottom