empty sump start - Biggest blunder EVER…..
- Thread starter Urshurak776
- Start date
10-15 seconds of idling shouldn't damage an engine, or even cause a lot of wear. Cold starts in freezing weather can starve some parts of an engine for this long, even if the oil has an appropriate W grade. Engine load is much higher when the engine is that cold as well.
There is a study (SAE 941983) where multiple engines were drained of oil, then started up, revved to 1,000 rpm, and then shut off for a minute. They repeated this 500 times consecutively with no oil in the crankcase. The amount of bearing and piston ring wear measured after the test was equivalent the amount of wear that would occur in 5 hours in a high load engine test. In other words, it was insignificant.
There is a study (SAE 941983) where multiple engines were drained of oil, then started up, revved to 1,000 rpm, and then shut off for a minute. They repeated this 500 times consecutively with no oil in the crankcase. The amount of bearing and piston ring wear measured after the test was equivalent the amount of wear that would occur in 5 hours in a high load engine test. In other words, it was insignificant.
That short spurt will have no negative effects on the engine.
Short story. When I was a kid my dad owned a garage. He took in a car that he was going to junk. I drained all the oil out of it and ran it for nearly an hour hoping to blow the engine. I got tired of running it and shut it down. Sounded bad but still ran.
Short story. When I was a kid my dad owned a garage. He took in a car that he was going to junk. I drained all the oil out of it and ran it for nearly an hour hoping to blow the engine. I got tired of running it and shut it down. Sounded bad but still ran.
As a general rule, there is oil in the pump and oil passageways. A start up without oil pressure does not mean there is zero oil. There will be some residual oil movement, even if it is only a drop or two. It is enough to protect for some time. Especially if the engine was run prior to the change.
If I were to guess, 30 seconds won't create any real damage.
If I were to guess, 30 seconds won't create any real damage.
Good idea, it's standard practice with aviation piston engines. But be sure to use a proper oil filter cutter. Otherwise, cutting open the filter (for example with a hacksaw) can contaminate it, putting metal into the pleats that didn't come from the engine.
I use a cutter like this: https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/topages/oilfiltercutteraviation.php
My 2 stroke Yamaha 50 HP outboard has oil injection. If it runs out or malfunctions the engine goes into limp mode and caps rpms at 2K so you can get home.
If a motor can run for an hour lubricated only by gasoline then 20 seconds with residual oil film should be fine.
If a motor can run for an hour lubricated only by gasoline then 20 seconds with residual oil film should be fine.
Good point, a lot of carbureted small engines flood their crankcase with fuel until it's spitting fuel out of the intake or exhaust
I just remembered. I had a VW Beetle that the oil pump went out on. Couldn't afford a tow. Drove it nearly 3 miles back home carefully with no oil pressure. Replaced the oil pump and drove it afterwards with no apparent ill effects.
I am sure oils today are more robust and can handle more abuse.
I am sure oils today are more robust and can handle more abuse.
When I was starting to do auto maintenance my dad (who was born in 1903) taught me to start the engine after draining the oil to get the last bit of oil out of the oil pump. We only ran the engine for a few seconds (and there was indeed another gush of oil) but it also took longer for the oil pressure to come up when we added oil than if we hadn't done that.
Maybe that's what people did in the early days of motoring. He would have still been a teen in 1919, and I don't suppose the family farm had all new vehicles, so his ideas and experience were from the very early days of motoring.
I haven't done that for many decades now and it seems pretty dumb in retrospect but those engines don't seem to have been harmed by doing that. So unless your engine ran for quite a while without oil you probably haven't done any harm.
But I do agree with replacing the filter in a few hundred miles and checking for glitter. Though I'm not sure what to do about it if there is some, just curiosity I suppose. If the engine is running fine, why would you do anything. Modern engines are good for many hundreds of thousands of miles and that one might now be down to only a few hundreds of thousands.
Maybe that's what people did in the early days of motoring. He would have still been a teen in 1919, and I don't suppose the family farm had all new vehicles, so his ideas and experience were from the very early days of motoring.
I haven't done that for many decades now and it seems pretty dumb in retrospect but those engines don't seem to have been harmed by doing that. So unless your engine ran for quite a while without oil you probably haven't done any harm.
But I do agree with replacing the filter in a few hundred miles and checking for glitter. Though I'm not sure what to do about it if there is some, just curiosity I suppose. If the engine is running fine, why would you do anything. Modern engines are good for many hundreds of thousands of miles and that one might now be down to only a few hundreds of thousands.
If there is metal in the oil or oil filter then you start the inspection process to figure out where it is coming from.
You mention if it is running fine why would you do anything, because over time that tiny bit of damage that you do not audibly hear now can progress and get worse and cause further damage resulting in a higher cost of repair.
For example GM 5.3 AFM engines are known to have lifter failures typically they progressively get worse over time, if you catch the lifter failure early you can get away without causing damage to the camshaft and save a good chunk of money by only having to do the lifters.
Running fine doesn't necessarily mean it is fine.
It will be fine. While others think that not pre filling the oil filter is the end of the world even if it’s horizontal or inverted lol
Clear the codes, oil is in and drive it. If no issues, pretend it never happened. They’ll be more!
dnewton3
Staff member
Was it ideal? Of course not.
Will the engine grenade because of what happened? Of course not.
It's a learning lesson; nothing teaches us better than mistakes. I bet you'll never do that again!
Will the engine grenade because of what happened? Of course not.
It's a learning lesson; nothing teaches us better than mistakes. I bet you'll never do that again!
I feel your pain !
My wife tells me I'm way to picky when I do things my way of thinking is you want something done right do it yourself which does hold some weight . None the less I have made mistakes as well over the years and brow beat myself needlessly.
I believe in your case no damage was done ! Rest easy my friend .
My wife tells me I'm way to picky when I do things my way of thinking is you want something done right do it yourself which does hold some weight . None the less I have made mistakes as well over the years and brow beat myself needlessly.
I believe in your case no damage was done ! Rest easy my friend .
Last fall I connected the muffs to my boat outdrive, climbed up the ladder to my boat and started the engine for maybe 20 seconds.
Forgot to turn on the water.
It's a fresh water cooled engine so worst case is the raw water impeller at $85.
Forgot to turn on the water.
It's a fresh water cooled engine so worst case is the raw water impeller at $85.
@Urshurak776 out of curiosity was it a key or push button start? Using a key, the positions are accessory, ignition, momentarily (starter).
But then again the engine might fall out of the car and the big truck behind you runs over it and mushes it. Lack of oil can cause all kinds of problems.
If it was like the old times, days of straight 30 oil, it likely could have idled there for 5 minutes or more and still be fine. 
I imagine this happens about once a day in most speedy type oil change places.
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