Elon Musk Expects Tesla’s Main Rival Will Be a Chinese EV Maker

[edyvw]

People will have different opinions, but my parents grew up under a communist regime and I remember it as a small child, and from my view what China is doing and how it treats its people is no different and is actually worse in many regards than USSR.

The difference is that West is doing business with China and is hugely dependent on their goods and labor, where they didn’t do that with USSR, so the media, corporate and political machine lie and hide Chinas true character and what is really going on there.

I am aware what were communist regimes in Europe. Each country had different version of it.
USSR was more secretive society. China has largest tourist population today. People from China actually do leave country on vacation. In USSR that was pretty much impossible, unless going to Bulgarian beach.

 

[KrisZ]

I am aware what were communist regimes in Europe. Each country had different version of it.
USSR was more secretive society. China has largest tourist population today. People from China actually do leave country on vacation. In USSR that was pretty much impossible, unless going to Bulgarian beach.

But they didn’t in the past, just like USSR. They are probably able to do that now because their overlords can keep a close eye on them via a smartphone.
This is surface deep thinking. Not sure you even understand the depths of Marxist thinking and ideology. Deep down it all boils down to the same things, doesn’t matter how differently it is dressed on the surface.

 

[edyvw]

But they didn’t in the past, just like USSR. They are probably able to do that now because their overlords can keep a close eye on them via a smartphone.
This is surface deep thinking. Not sure you even understand the depths of Marxist thinking and ideology. Deep down it all boils down to the same things, doesn’t matter how differently it is dressed on the surface.

I teach it at university. But you are welcome to stop by to give lecture.
By the way, I was in USSR.

 

[KrisZ]

I teach it at university. But you are welcome to stop by to give lecture.
By the way, I was in USSR.

Teach what exactly?
Were you aware you were followed by NKVD everywhere? Because 100% you were to make sure you saw what they wanted you to see, just like visitors to China today are followed everywhere by their agents.
Heck, they pay many tiktokkers to show how China is great, under careful “guidance” of course.

Wasn’t Stalin affectionately called “uncle Joe” during WW2 when we needed USSR? And somehow how we deal with China is different?

I’m curious to hear your position.

 

[edyvw]

Teach what exactly?
Were you aware you were followed by NKVD everywhere? Because 100% you were to make sure you saw what they wanted you to see, just like visitors to China today are followed everywhere by their agents.
Heck, they pay many tiktokkers to show how China is great, under careful “guidance” of course.

Exactly what you asked me do I know.
This Tuesday I was talking about October revolution and death of Lenin. Next Tuesday it is cold war lecture.
You are confusing Marxism with Communism and that with security state, which is not confined to certain type of regime.

 

[KrisZ]

Exactly what you asked me do I know.
This Tuesday I was talking about October revolution and death of Lenin. Next Tuesday it is cold war lecture.
You are confusing Marxism with Communism and that with security state, which is not confined to certain type of regime.

Not confusing anything, that’s what you academic types always say. Marxism is the foundation of communism, natzism/fascism and whatever other ism may come in the future.
The end result is always the same, loss of millions of lives, enslavement, loss of property, personal rights and freedoms, annexation, cultural devastation, poverty and the list just goes on.

And the lines are always the same too, “this time it’s different”, “we will do it right this time”, “the previous regimes weren’t true Marxists” on and on and on.

But sure, if you want to get hung up on small details, like ability to travel, then sure, all these regimes were different. I can grant you that.

 

[edyvw]

Not confusing anything, that’s what you academic types always say. Marxism is the foundation of communism, natzism/fascism and whatever other ism may come in the future.
The end result is always the same, loss of millions of lives, enslavement, loss of property, personal rights and freedoms, annexation, cultural devastation, poverty and the list just goes on.

And the lines are always the same too, “this time it’s different”, “we will do it right this time”, “the previous regimes weren’t true Marxists” on and on and on.

But sure, if you want to get hung up on small details, like ability to travel, then sure, all these regimes were different. I can grant you that.

Offer to give lecture stands.

 

[KrisZ]

Offer to give lecture stands.

How about addressing the issues I raised instead?

 

[KrisZ]

deleted

 

[edyvw]

How about addressing the issues I raised instead?

It is not thread about “isms.”

 

[KrisZ]

It is not thread about “isms.”

Now it’s not? Convenient

 

[edyvw]

Now it’s not? Convenient

Lol.
Offer stands. I could learn something.

 

[Cruzer4326]

Lol.
Offer stands. I could learn something.

As a bystander reading this dialog, I doubt....

 

[edyvw]

As a bystander reading this dialog, I doubt....

You can join.

 

[SC Maintenance]

But comparisons with USSR cannot be made. USSR was different ball game. China is far, far different.

I would be interested in your abreviated version of the lecture - because I also disagree (and don't have time for a lecture)

You mention peoples ability to travel, own wealth, etc - and that is different. However the USSR and modern China are both centrally controlled totalitarian ruled places, that are really a collective of regions that were historically self ruled.

You can also say that South Carolina and California are very different as well, and that would be accurate. But you boil away the window dressing and there very similar.

 

[edyvw]

I would be interested in your abreviated version of the lecture - because I also disagree (and don't have time for a lecture)

You mention peoples ability to travel, own wealth, etc - and that is different. However the USSR and modern China are both centrally controlled totalitarian ruled places, that are really a collective of regions that were historically self ruled.

You can also say that South Carolina and California are very different as well, and that would be accurate. But you boil away the window dressing and there very similar.

Absolutely they are one party regimes.
But, Chinese economic system is far different. China today is drifting toward more centralization and authoritarianism under Xi, but it is still far different from what USSR was. In the end, China made sure they do not repeat same mistakes as USSR after Tiananmen Square.
That doesn’t mean they are not authoritarian, security driven state, but differences are stark. Chinese system could be best described as Yugoslavian system, but with more control and less freedoms. Still, China does allow people to run small businesses, joint ventures etc. That was absolutely impossible in USSR.

This drift that is happening is actually in line with this thread. As I said earlier, basic issue that China has is that it is not democracy. Authoritarian regimes are not conducive to innovation as regime itself is afraid of it.
But, comparing it to USSR is absolutely insane.

 

[SC Maintenance]

Absolutely they are one party regimes.
But, Chinese economic system is far different. China today is drifting toward more centralization and authoritarianism under Xi, but it is still far different from what USSR was. In the end, China made sure they do not repeat same mistakes as USSR after Tiananmen Square.
That doesn’t mean they are not authoritarian, security driven state, but differences are stark. Chinese system could be best described as Yugoslavian system, but with more control and less freedoms. Still, China does allow people to run small businesses, joint ventures etc. That was absolutely impossible in USSR.

This drift that is happening is actually in line with this thread. As I said earlier, basic issue that China has is that it is not democracy. Authoritarian regimes are not conducive to innovation as regime itself is afraid of it.
But, comparing it to USSR is absolutely insane.

Correct, but that is the current state. China is not at war with the western world - they trade with it.

USSR was in a cold war with the western world. If you had the right papers and money you could travel within the USSR. I know someone that did, prior to the wall falling. You couldn't travel outside for fear of defecting. You have seen recent reports that CCP has established secret police stations all over the world. This is there current method of controlling there important citizens abroad. Different but the same https://www.newsweek.com/china-over...feguard-defenders-transnational-crime-1764531

USSR technologically was probably on par or ahead of the USA in early 50's. However once the officials figured out they could give positions of importance to their brother in law rather than the one most qualified - which is the proper communist doctrine - there progress slowed then stopped. Lots of stories written after the collapse of gifted Russians that were sent to special schools only to find the elite lived lavishly and got special positions in these schools they didn't earn while the rest of the population lived in squalor. Exactly the same as with CCP today.

If globalization stops we shall get to see how different or not they are.

 

[edyvw]

To add, China, unlike USSR, allows huge numbers of their students to study abroad. They actually go back!
USSR allowed ONLY certain small numbers of students to go out. It was such a small number that Yugoslavia had more students in the US than countries of Warsaw Pack together, anywhere else on yearly basis.
In 1954, KGB general in visit to the US said that American nuclear weapons are not the biggest threat, but student exchange programs.

Bcs. of that, Xi is threading fine line today. Any economic downturn, and educated masses will start questioning regime. So far, they managed to avoid that bcs. social contract, “CCP gives you economic progress, you give us power,” worked.

 

[edyvw]

Correct, but that is the current state. China is not at war with the western world - they trade with it.

USSR was in a cold war with the western world. If you had the right papers and money you could travel within the USSR. I know someone that did, prior to the wall falling. You couldn't travel outside for fear of defecting. You have seen recent reports that CCP has established secret police stations all over the world. This is there current method of controlling there important citizens abroad. Different but the same https://www.newsweek.com/china-over...feguard-defenders-transnational-crime-1764531

USSR technologically was probably on par or ahead of the USA in early 50's. However once the officials figured out they could give positions of importance to their brother in law rather than the one most qualified - which is the proper communist doctrine - there progress slowed then stopped. Lots of stories written after the collapse of gifted Russians that were sent to special schools only to find the elite lived lavishly and got special positions in these schools they didn't earn while the rest of the population lived in squalor.

If globalization stops we shall get to see how different or not they are.

That is what I was saying. Their space program is good example how authoritarian regimes are not conducive to innovation.
When Sergei Korolev died in 1966, everything collapsed. He was actually in prison until, I think, 1942, and Stalin allowed him to get out bcs. they needed him. But, Stalinism and later rulers of USSR are far drift from per se idea of communism. Stalin was absolute maniac who imprisoned Yakovlev bcs. he once flew on his airplane and had bad turbulence.

 

[Vil_Riker]

Going back to the main theme - during the Beijing olympics it became very clear to the chinese government and population that having clean air and blue skies is a good thing. Since then they have been pushing to clean up the environment. Electric cars are one of the ways to do that.

Nowadays you will very frequently see cars with green number plates on the roads. Vast majority of them are Chinese brands with a few Teslas sprinkled in. The mopeds are all electric as well. The skies are blue and the air is clean so it has been a major win for the policy makers.