Ecore with an Issue

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: ekpolk
Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
...
The E-core IS a Champ Labs design.........

I doubt it would ever happen with a Fleetguard or Donaldson filter. Heavy diesel filters aren't built as "skimpily" as some of their Passenger Car counterparts seem to be......


C'mon, you know what I meant -- the CL filters with the pleats firmly cemented into the metal end caps, and heavy steel centertube. As in M1, KN, STP, VC, Bosch (some), and so on...


Yeah, but I had to give you a hard time

 

[TurboLuver]

I might add that the maintenance on that vehicle is nearly non-existent, if left to his own devices the oil would never get changed, only topped off when low. In fact he had a brand new 93 S-10 that got this treatment, I changed the oil one time in it and the last 20k or so he ran it with no oil cap. The engine gave out at around 120k.

 

[Bill in Utah]

Originally Posted By: ekpolk
My theory is this: First, look at the paper end caps. They are so thin that they failed to stabilize the filter pleats in position. With the parting of those pleats, and nothing but a skimpy plastic frame behind to support, it was easy for oil pressure to blow a hole through a weak spot. I seriously doubt this would have happened with a Champ Labs design, a Puro, NAPA, Amsoil, etc.




They are NOT paper (or cardboard). They are felt/filter media mix.

Thicker than the media for the filter.

The "skimpy plastic" cage is very strong nylon. (send me your address and I'll send you one and you can crush it with your hand for me)

Plenty of support for the element.

SO the oil pressure is going to blow a hole with the media in a nice round shape?

Instead of a tear or rip?

Sorry, this filter had something poke a hole in it IMO. Not the oil pressure. Something foreign to a filter.

Take care, Bill

 

[SuperBusa]

Originally Posted By: Bill in Utah

SO the oil pressure is going to blow a hole with the media in a nice round shape?

Instead of a tear or rip?

Sorry, this filter had something poke a hole in it IMO. Not the oil pressure. Something foreign to a filter.


There certainly could have been a small hole or defect in the media for some reason during manufacturing, and yes, the oil pressure would naturally want to force oil through it which could make it open up even more with time and continued pressure/flow.

 

[SuperBusa]

Originally Posted By: Bill in Utah
Originally Posted By: SuperBusa
Originally Posted By: Bill in Utah
From the outside in....

That's the direction the pressure/flow of oil would be in the filter's use.

Probably had a weak area in the media, and the oil pressure during use just caused it to fail at some point.


I know that is the way the oil flows..

The reason why I said that is because if someone or something poked a hole in there, it would be from the inside core to the outside.

Someone could have poked the hole and then the pressure took the small part and pushed it back towards the core?


Exactly. But it could have been a weak or thin area in the media too ... hard to say. If you're brave, take a new one and poke a small hole in the media with a toothpick through the center core and then run it for 1000s of miles ... and then do a "dissection for inspection" to see how it looks.

 

[pzev]

I wasn't going to say it, but I felt this hole could have been [censored].

THAT said, the surrounding media is being forced through the center tube, and that makes me feel like this was a result of cold winter conditions and a neglected car (oil looks like [censored], could be sludged). There might have been a flaw in the media to begin with...that certainly would have made things a bit easier.

Truth is, very few of these filters get cut open, so its had to tell how often this happens. I will say the E-core design has proven itself again and again, though I do remember another rather interesting failure on this board...one having to do with a big ole V8 and thick oil.
Filters in general could be failing all the time in similar manner. As someone already said, it doesn't mean it stops working, as it would still filter the oil partially....we may never even notice on a normal OCI.

To bad filters are not clear, would be really cool to see exactly what your buying. Perhaps someone should make an oil filter witha clear composite shell. Would proboboly be expensive, and prone to failure however...

 

[Sayjac]

I'm runnning a #3614 ST Ecore right now on a Tacoma. I plan on running it to 5k and then I'm going to cut it open just to see how it looks. I'm not going to change that plan because of this thread.

IMO fwiw, either Bill or Busa's theories regarding what happened is possible. Could have been some mishandling of the filter after manufacture and before installation. Or, it could have been a design weakness in the media. That said, the shape of the hole is very curious.

Don't know how many miles Bill's used Ecore has on it, but it looks good, IMO.

 

[pzev]

I have a 3614 (used) sitting in my dads garage. Actually, I take that back....its still on the car. I'll have to take it off and look. Don't know how many miles, probobly around 3 or 4k. My car takes the same filter, but I use motorcraft or M1....though I did pick up a Fram Extended Guard for his car next oci (all they had at wallmart).

I have a bunch of used oil filters sitting around. Time I spring for an oil filter cutter, as I fear for my fingers at the thought of using a hacksaw!

 

[daman]

Originally Posted By: Bill in Utah

Plenty of support for the element.

Look how clean that paper end cap peeled off couldn't do that to a steel end capper.

 

[unDummy]

Factory defect plain and simple.
Bazillion filters role down the assembly line and some of them have issues. You got one.

 

[Gary Allan]

Originally Posted By: daman

Look how clean that paper end cap peeled off couldn't do that to a steel end capper.

The filter pack is pressed down by the combo ADB/bypass valve. If you have any experience with ..well, just about anything industrial with a gasket, even if that was free floating from the synthetic felt, it would seal fine. The convolutions/folds of the media pleats pressing inward toward the cage keeps them in place.

The base of the Ecore is flat. There's no spacer or anything.

The only thing I'm uncertain about (as in, I don't know - but have pondered it) is how long the bypass valve remains within spec's. That filter looks saturated and moisture laden to me.

 

[mimelio]

That last picture is the reason why I avoid E-Cores. Plain and simply the end caps bonding (lack of) is more than enough reason to avoid at least for now.

 

[daman]

Originally Posted By: mimelio
That last picture is the reason why I avoid E-Cores. Plain and simply the end caps bonding (lack of) is more than enough reason to avoid at least for now.

Originally Posted By: Gary Allan
If you have any experience with it

The one's i dissected the end caps pulled off VERY easily with my fingers,these are 3k filters IMO.

 

[SWHeat]

What Gary said. Flow dynamics seal the felt to the media...even IF it were not bonded at all and floating in space above the media.

If a e-core was totally junk, it would have collapsed with the beating it got from my Grand Caravan with Auto-Rx rinse phase.

 

[Diesel_Clatter]

I used to remove a stubborn filter by poking a screwdriver through it and turning from time to time. Doesn't sound like this happened here.

 

[daman]

Originally Posted By: SWHeat
Flow dynamics seal the felt to the media...even IF it were not bonded at all and floating in space above the media.

Well you guy's can have em all id rather have steel and good glue over being held in place or relying on "Flow dynamics" .

 

[SWHeat]

Originally Posted By: daman
Originally Posted By: SWHeat
Flow dynamics seal the felt to the media...even IF it were not bonded at all and floating in space above the media.

Well you guy's can have em all id rather have steel and good glue over being held in place or relying on "Flow dynamics" .

Well then buy your better filter and quit bashing a filter that works just fine for its intended purpose, at a good price point, with improved flow (due to its open cage design, vs your steel tube with small holes).

If you were to have a intelligent beef with their design it would be with the combo anti-drainback/relief valve. Yet you continue to focus on the end caps that work perfectly, thus a poor argument IMHO. Get a clue. The cardboard end caps in a FRAM work just a good, the FRAM is overpriced for what it is, the ST is not. I would not hesitate to use the ST on my old Volvo or even my Grand Caravan (Auto-RX cleaning), yet I now have a stash of AA total grips that I have to use of that I got for $1.45 each. Good enough for those old cars....and have metal end caps!!

 

[Bill in Utah]

Originally Posted By: SWHeat

Well then buy your better filter and quit bashing a filter that works just fine for its intended purpose, at a good price point, with improved flow (due to its open cage design, vs your steel tube with small holes).

If you were to have a intelligent beef with their design it would be with the combo anti-drainback/relief valve. Yet you continue to focus on the end caps that work perfectly, thus a poor argument IMHO. Get a clue.

Glad it just not me....

 

[SuperBusa]

Originally Posted By: SWHeat
What Gary said. Flow dynamics seal the felt to the media...even IF it were not bonded at all and floating in space above the media.


But how could that be if Gary always claims that there is hardy any significant PSID across a filter's media?

Seeing how flimsy the glue job was on the photos above, I'd be leery of using a filter like that. Pressure is going to cause the oil to flow through any unsealed gaps before it goes down a more restrictive path. If there are unglued gaps on the end caps there will always be some oil getting through them.

 

[SuperBusa]

Originally Posted By: SWHeat

Well then buy your better filter and quit bashing a filter that works just fine for its intended purpose, at a good price point, with improved flow (due to its open cage design, vs your steel tube with small holes).

If you were to have a intelligent beef with their design it would be with the combo anti-drainback/relief valve.


Yeah, the center cage obviously looks like it would flow well, but filters with spiral wound steel center cores with many little holes will flow just fine. The engineers size and put enough holes in them to ensure it's not a flow choke point.

One thing that could be bad about the very open center "cage" design is if the media is not very stiff and self supporting that the center cage might not allow enough localized support. You can see in the OP's photos that the media where the hole is was collapsing into the open space in the center cage. A steel center core design wouldn't allow this to happen.

Also, if the bypass valve doesn't work very well or is set too high, and the filter gets loaded up too much (sludge engine) to cause a big PSID across the media, it could very well collapse and tear open at any weak point like seen in the photos. As others have said, this is probably what happened to this particular filter.