Easy way to verify RPMs?

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Originally Posted By: tgrudzin
"...Get it out in the sunlight with a camcorder so it can shoot at 1/1000 sec for "freeze frame". Paint a mark on the crank pulley, start it up, hold it at "1800 RPM".

The camcorder will film at 30 frames/sec, or 1800 frames/ min, and the paint mark will appear still if your tach really is 1800 RPM. It'll do the same thing at 900 and 3600 RPM, though the 900 would be "every other frame" yet should still hold still, just flicker.."

Your not doing this with an ordinary camcorder. Your camera would have to have the ability to manually set shutter speed and ISO rating. Otherwise the automatic ND filter is kicking in. And don't forget frames per second. The video camera I work with allows 1/1000 shutter speed, only at 24 and 60 FPS, not 30. Since this type of camera is running around $+4k, it's not in everyone's neighborhood. And you still need the mark to show on the camera side, don't you. Otherwise it could always be on the far side of the pulley when the photograph happens?
The playback would then be frame by frame or what? Cool idea, though.


Nah, what you're looking for is the "wagon wheel effect" where the spokes of a wagon wheel appear to be holding still or moving backwards slightly when shot on film, because in each frame the spoke has moved forward almost exactly one spoke's worth and another similar looking one replaces it in the same spot in frame.

OP can't hold 1800 RPM exactly with his foot but he can get it close. If he can get it close, then honk the horn to signify he thinks he's there, he can watch the video to see if the mark stabilizes. Or he can set up a closed circuit TV with the monitor by the driver's window.

And one doesn't have to pick the shutter speed; an auto shutter in adequate bright light should do the trick. What is important is that most of the time the shutter remains closed, otherwise the mark would be a blur.

Another way to handle it would be to run a timing gun in pitch black with a CMOS camera. Aim the gun at a white wall. CMOS's scan "here and there" and you'd get a cool pattern at multiples of its scan rate.
 
I had one half of that problem with my '92 Vigor (it wasn't reading low at idle; it was high at 70mph).
It turned out to be the alternator.

My transmission was going in and out of lock up while doing 70 on my morning commute, and when I got a rebuilt alternator the transmission came back into line. It's been fine since.
 
It's very common for OEM tachometers to read high (about 200 RPM is common), and it's practically guaranteed your OEM speedometer is reading high (I know of none that read correctly).

You need GPS and some form of tachometer that reads RPMs directly to confirm these numbers.
 
Originally Posted By: Johnny2Bad
It's very common for OEM tachometers to read high (about 200 RPM is common), and it's practically guaranteed your OEM speedometer is reading high (I know of none that read correctly).

You need GPS and some form of tachometer that reads RPMs directly to confirm these numbers.

It doesn't matter if the tach being 200 RPM off is normal. My problem is the tach USED to read exactly 3k RPM at 70 mph, and now it DOESN'T. Something CHANGED and is not operating normally and I'm trying to figure out what caused that change. I want it to go back to reading 3k RPM at 70 mph because that's where it should be, and I don't care if in reality it's 200 RPM off.
 
Oh my goodness...wow, many good responses, but many are very complicated! The best method IMHO of course, is to use the sound of the engine. I have been using this program, or a variation of it for years both here in the lab at work, and in my cars, boats, etc. Basically, it measures the sound from your engine, does a quick FFT, and can tell the engine speed from the fundamental harmonics. Pretty simple stuff really.

https://www.tunelab-world.com/tach

Its called "engine RPM" and you can find it in your app store...or just google "engine rpm from sound"
 
Originally Posted By: exranger06
Originally Posted By: Johnny2Bad
It's very common for OEM tachometers to read high (about 200 RPM is common), and it's practically guaranteed your OEM speedometer is reading high (I know of none that read correctly).

You need GPS and some form of tachometer that reads RPMs directly to confirm these numbers.

It doesn't matter if the tach being 200 RPM off is normal. My problem is the tach USED to read exactly 3k RPM at 70 mph, and now it DOESN'T. Something CHANGED and is not operating normally and I'm trying to figure out what caused that change. I want it to go back to reading 3k RPM at 70 mph because that's where it should be, and I don't care if in reality it's 200 RPM off.
Seeing as the ECU gets the tach signal from the crank sensor if it changed then what changed is related to gearing. Tires worn down?
 
If the rpms were 3,000 @ 70, and now they're 3,500 @ 70 you'd be burning more gas. Any noticeable changes to your gas mileage? I'd use a hand held tach and compare. If the rpms are the same, then I'd suspect something is going on with the transmission.
 
I think this problem started after the last time I filled up with gas, so I don't know if gas mileage dropped yet. But as of the last time I filled it, gas mileage was still normal.

So the idle issue I'm having is the tach reads almost zero at idle. Here's a pic of my tach I found online:

s-l500.jpg

That first "bold" tick mark represents 500 rpm. I guess Honda found it unnecessary to have tick marks below 500 rpm
smile.gif
. My tach needle sits just under that first tick mark at idle, signifying that my engine is idling at around 400 rpm.
confused2.gif
The engine seems to run fine and idle fine. Sounds normal at idle, really quiet and slow. I don't know what an engine sounds like at 400 rpm, so I don't know if my engine is actually turning that slow. I do get an annoying vibration when I'm in gear and sitting at a stoplight, possibly a bad motor mount. It's much better in neutral or park.
 
Don't rule out transmission issues. Slipping clutch (manual) or torque convertor clutch not holding (automatic) would certainly produce what you're seeing at cruise speed. Of course a slipping manual trans clutch would go from 'maybe' to 'yeah, its definitely the clutch because the car won't move anymore' in short order. But a bad TC clutch in an automatic can run that way pretty much indefinitely, provided the bits of the dead clutch don't plug the filter.


As far as reading 400 RPM at idle, that's way below the reasonable precision of the gauge anyway. When you're below that near the end of the scale, I wouldn't expect any kind of precision at all, even with a digitally-controlled gauge.
 
I can count the number of shifts my car is making and the last "upshift" is my torque converter locking up. That and you would take a MPG hit if the torque converter is not locking up. That and your transmission temperature would be higher than normal. That and take an ohm meter to the torque converter lockup solenoid and report back the measurement. That and check for codes. Transmission codes won't necessarily light the dash light.
 
Let me make sure I understand you correctly

- Tach is reading close to zero when the engine is at idle
- Tach is reading 500 RPM higher when you are traveling at 70MPH
 
Originally Posted By: Vikas
Let me make sure I understand you correctly

- Tach is reading close to zero when the engine is at idle
- Tach is reading 500 RPM higher when you are traveling at 70MPH

Correct
 
Originally Posted By: exranger06
Originally Posted By: Vikas
Let me make sure I understand you correctly

- Tach is reading close to zero when the engine is at idle
- Tach is reading 500 RPM higher when you are traveling at 70MPH

Correct
Sounds like the tach is faulty.
 
Looks like it's a bad tach. This morning it was working fine, and coming home from work it worked fine for the first few miles, then started reading too high again. I confirmed that the torque converter IS locking up. Speedometer is also pretty accurate. It reads about 2-3 mph too fast according to my GPS, which I think is pretty normal and within the error margin.
 
Originally Posted By: DriveHard
Oh my goodness...wow, many good responses, but many are very complicated! The best method IMHO of course, is to use the sound of the engine. I have been using this program, or a variation of it for years both here in the lab at work, and in my cars, boats, etc. Basically, it measures the sound from your engine, does a quick FFT, and can tell the engine speed from the fundamental harmonics. Pretty simple stuff really.

https://www.tunelab-world.com/tach

Its called "engine RPM" and you can find it in your app store...or just google "engine rpm from sound"



That's interesting. Any indication of accuracy?

I don't have an iphone, but GF does.

(There's feedback from a rather UN-satisfied customer on the iTunes page though.)

There are apparently also a few freebie android apps, but they seem to get very mixed reviews.
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: Ducked
Originally Posted By: DriveHard
Oh my goodness...wow, many good responses, but many are very complicated! The best method IMHO of course, is to use the sound of the engine. I have been using this program, or a variation of it for years both here in the lab at work, and in my cars, boats, etc. Basically, it measures the sound from your engine, does a quick FFT, and can tell the engine speed from the fundamental harmonics. Pretty simple stuff really.

https://www.tunelab-world.com/tach

Its called "engine RPM" and you can find it in your app store...or just google "engine rpm from sound"



That's interesting. Any indication of accuracy?

I don't have an iphone, but GF does.

(There's feedback from a rather UN-satisfied customer on the iTunes page though.)

There are apparently also a few freebie android apps, but they seem to get very mixed reviews.


I have had pretty good luck with it. The better your starting window, the more accurate it is.
 
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