Earth hour

[jmac]

They have been advertising this quite a bit lately and I remember some discussion on this before, and I've been thinking in old obbop terms, bah what a stupid thing, turnign all the lights out for one hour in the shanty, like that's going to save one electron, and if there was a large enough load drop all at once could possibly hurt some equipment?

So my question is particularly for Shannow, my impression is with most generating plants that for a one hour event there would be no way to really save any significant energy right? Was that the gist of the discussion the last time they did this?
And what does happen when there is all of a sudden a significant unplanned load drop (or increase), does it merely possibly cause a line frequency variation?

 

[crinkles]

wait for shannow on the technicals, but i think it is a load of codswallop myself.

just a feelgood factor for the masses.

 

[tropic]

If it raises awareness for conserving our resources, I'm all for it. I don't mind spending an hour in my car with the A/C on.

 

[Shannow]

Electricity is the ultimate in "Just in time" delivery.

Even though my state market is around 12,000MW around the peak, somebody turning on a 60w lightglobe pulls down the frequency somewhat, and every synchronous generator in the system opens the governing valves a poofteenth to deliver the load.

In reality, you turning on your light is probably matched by someone else turning one off elsewhere, but that's how it works.

It's really noticeable when an Al smelter trips. Frequency ises, and the governors close in.

The state turning off all their lights ?

Frequency will initially rise by some fraction of a Hz, to make sure that everything else (the inertia in the system) takes that load, in the couple of cycles that it takes for the Governors to close in and catch it.

That will cause a pressure rise in the boilers, causing the control system to lower energy input.

It will push all of the generators into a lower level of efficiency per MW delivered for the hour, as the number running is usually to meet the peak, plus a contingency.

In reality, if it wakes people up enough to turn off unused lights in their normal day to day, I'm all for it.

As a show of unity (towards what, I don't know), it's silly.

Not as silly as the enviroterrorists who run "Fossil Fools Day"

 

[Steve S]

There are many people who need to feel good about something whether it makes a difference or not.

 

[crinkles]

steve, can't they just shut the lights of every day when not in use and feel good about THAT?

 

[SZR48207]

Originally Posted By: Shannow
Electricity is the ultimate in "Just in time" delivery.

Even though my state market is around 12,000MW around the peak, somebody turning on a 60w lightglobe pulls down the frequency somewhat, and every synchronous generator in the system opens the governing valves a poofteenth to deliver the load.

In reality, you turning on your light is probably matched by someone else turning one off elsewhere, but that's how it works.

It's really noticeable when an Al smelter trips. Frequency ises, and the governors close in.

The state turning off all their lights ?

Frequency will initially rise by some fraction of a Hz, to make sure that everything else (the inertia in the system) takes that load, in the couple of cycles that it takes for the Governors to close in and catch it.

That will cause a pressure rise in the boilers, causing the control system to lower energy input.

It will push all of the generators into a lower level of efficiency per MW delivered for the hour, as the number running is usually to meet the peak, plus a contingency.

In reality, if it wakes people up enough to turn off unused lights in their normal day to day, I'm all for it.

As a show of unity (towards what, I don't know), it's silly.

Not as silly as the enviroterrorists who run "Fossil Fools Day"


Which state (or ISO/RTO)?

I'm assuming you work on the generation/scheduling side versus the ISO or trading?

 

[Shannow]

Reddy45, I'm turbine engineer at a utility downunder.

 

[eljefino]

My town is in a budget crunch and considering turning off half the street lights.

Nobody walks anymore, so it makes good sense to me. Cuts light pollution etc. And who would notice a "prowler" and take action? (70's feelgood reason for blazing light) We've got those IR motion detector security lights...

 

[Silk]

Been and gone - didn't notice the power station shutting down.....

 

[Turk]

I know I'll be turning on every light inside and outside.

The garage lights are good for 900 watts and they will be on also.

Plus, to make that baby really spin, I'll run the dishwasher and the elecrtic dryer at the same time too.

 

[Shannow]

See, it's the extremists at both ends that make the whole world stupid.

At least we can hope for sub-par wiring.

 

[simple_gifts]

Quote:

See, it's the extremists at both ends that make the whole world stupid.

+1.

I see California might consider banning dark colored cars... makes the AC work too hard.

 

[crinkles]

Originally Posted By: tpitcher

I know I'll be turning on every light inside and outside.

The garage lights are good for 900 watts and they will be on also.

Plus, to make that baby really spin, I'll run the dishwasher and the elecrtic dryer at the same time too.








+1. i started doing it, but the missus got upset.

 

[Turk]

It looks like you miss the point of this.

First of all, the dishwasher will run and the clothes dryer will run today anyway.

I am a conservationalist, not an enviromentalist. Big difference.

Normally, when I drive somewhere, I make all of my stops along the way and no doubling back. When I get home, I stay home; all of the driving is planned and done along the way.

I coast to my stops saving gas and my proof is my original brake pads are still on and are fine, even at 152,000 MILES!

When I take my boat out, I use the battery powered motor as much as possible; leaving the gas motor off as much as possible. I always turn the lights off when I leave the rooms I am done with.

If I listed all of the things I do to conserve, most people would hardle believe it.

This "Earth Hour" is not just about that, it's among other things, control over your life. There is an agenda going on here, some people realize it, others don't.

I will be exercising my rights and freedoms.

Last of all, by you saying "At least we can hope for sub-par wiring" are you wanting me to die?

JUST WHO IS THE EXTREMIST HERE...?

 

[oilyriser]

It's a really useless thing to do at 9pm when the load has already dropped off a lot, but if people went lights off from 6-7pm it would make a difference.

 

[uc50ic4more]

Originally Posted By: tpitcher
This "Earth Hour" is not just about that, it's among other things, control over your life. There is an agenda going on here, some people realize it, others don't.


I don't realize it (I thought Earth Hour was a mildly misguided attempt to get others into the habit to at least *thinking* about not being so wasteful with their energy consumption.), and hadn't really given any thought to ulterior agendas. Can you explain what's up?

 

[ryansride2017]

Originally Posted By: tropic
If it raises awareness for conserving our resources, I'm all for it. I don't mind spending an hour in my car with the A/C on.


That's the spirit!

 

[GROUCHO MARX]

Originally Posted By: ryansride2017
Originally Posted By: tropic
If it raises awareness for conserving our resources, I'm all for it. I don't mind spending an hour in my car with the A/C on.


That's the spirit!



+1

 

[Kestas]

Truthfully, I raised my awareness on electricity usage during the Blackout of Aug 2003. During that time I realized how I can do many things in the dark. The things I learned during the blackout stuck with me.