E15 and older BMWs

[Russell]

As many of you know the US EPA is considering mandating(?) 15% ethanol in fuels, perhaps in late 2010.

Politics aside, what would be the impact of 15% ethanol on our older vehicles, especially BMWs?

EPA is testing only a very small number of newer vehicles and is initially saying that 2001 and newer vehicles NOT should experience any issues. What about older vehicles.

I am most concerned about my older BMW that requires preminum fuel.

 

[meangreen01]

Yes, there's talk of potential legislation that would allow(mandate?) 15% ethanol.

I would think that it would be horrible for anyone operating an older motor vehicle. How exactly it effects your BMW, I'm not really sure. But, if it's like most similar vehicles you can expect cat failures and a ton of rediculous CEL's

Vote against this nonsense...

 

[HTSS_TR]

Me too, my '94 LS400 + '00 E430 + '04 S2000 all can tolerate 10% and that is what stated in owner manual. I have no idea if 15% will cause any problems in the fuel system.

I don't know why they are playing politic with our vehicles ? There are more than 100 millions older vehicles that can not tolerate more than 10% ethanol without replacing the fuel systems which is very costly.

 

[Jim 5]

Maybe it's part of the plan to force new car sales now that the government's in the car manufacturing business.

 

[Gene K]

Rubber components that can be affected by alcohol may need replaced. It will lean the engine a little. This could be a plus or minus depending on the current state of tune.

 

[StevieC]

I can see manufacturers releasing an update for ECM's due to mileage concerns and TSB's for some parts that might not be compatible with such a high amount of Ethanol.

So far Shell in my area offers regular at E-10, middle grade at E-5 and premium with no Ethanol.

Most likely these will increase and I will just switch grades to avoid the 15%

 

[Russell]

Here in Kentucky there is no pump labeling requirement. I believe there is no E0 in KY as all fuel seems to be E10.

Not easy to know as when I am in the store, the clerks often have no idea.

 

[Russell]

Originally Posted By: StevieC
I can see manufacturers releasing an update for ECM's due to mileage concerns and TSB's for some parts that might not be compatible with such a high amount of Ethanol.

So far Shell in my area offers regular at E-10, middle grade at E-5 and premium with no Ethanol.

Most likely these will increase and I will just switch grades to avoid the 15%



doubt if BMW will offer any TSMs or ECU updates for 15 year old cars.

 

[StevieC]

Yeah I hear you on that one... At least my '89 VW Cabriolet has CIS Mechanical Fuel Injection which I can modify mixture using an Alan-Key

 

[Kestas]

Use of E10 may explain the lean miss I'm experiencing with my carburated 71 Cutlass.

 

[StevieC]

You may have to adjust the mixture slightly... I know I had to on my old Dodge Caravan with a carb when E-10 was introduced.


My dad would always warm up the engine so the choke was off and then lean out the carb to the point that the engine started missing and then turn the screw about a 1/4 turn back towards the rich position and that would be perfect for most vehicles to be dead on for emissions and fuel dilution.

 

[Kestas]

That's okay for idle quality. My problem is off-idle. I already enlarged the main jets 10%, which helped a bit.

 

[Jim 5]

Originally Posted By: Kestas
That's okay for idle quality. My problem is off-idle. I already enlarged the main jets 10%, which helped a bit.


It's probably got a quadrajet? If you've got bigger jets on the mains, then it seems like you might be getting an off-idle stumble and need to look at the transition circuit.

I don't know how to tune those, but there must be a way of dealing with the transition circuit. Now that you've done the main jets, on a Holley you'd change the position of the accelerator pump cam, then look at a different cam and bigger accelerator pump squirters.

 

[Kestas]

No, it's a 2-bbl Rochester - original. I'll admit that before the lean-miss problem, I rebuilt the engine to factory specs, with the exception that I ground down the egr bumps in the exhaust ports and mildly ported the head (smoothed the features). I'm sure it breathes a bit better than before, but does it breathe that much better to require radical rejetting?

 

[Brons2]

A 1971 Cutlass had EGR?

 

[Kestas]

They were non-functional in my car. I believe they were used in California applications, where ports were drilled to inject air into the exhaust. Now that you mention it, they probably weren't called "egr bumps" but something else.