DVD player to play CD's???

[Volvohead]

Those usually go in the low $200s used in good shape, sometimes less for the V-Dac. Neither will make a Wadia-killer, but both are a good step up from the internal output stage of the Touch, IMO. The DacMagic needs to be run from its balanced outs to get what it's capable of. Otherwise, it runs through a rather mediocre op-amp before reaching the RCAs. Watch out for the PSU wallwarts on the DacMagic. There is an exchange/recall on some of the early ones. If your system leans towards the cooler side, go with the V-Dac. If it needs a shot of added detail (or is warm enough already), go with the DacMagic.

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: Volvohead

The DacMagic needs to be run from its balanced outs to get what it's capable of.

So then I'd need another device to convert balanced outputs to unbalanced RCA inputs on my receiver? This is getting more complicated than necessary for my purpose. As much as I like good sound, we're talking about my unfinished basement environment here. No matter how much money I dump into the hardware, it'll still not sound like it should due to massive echo and poor soundproofing. I think my good old SB Classic alone will have to do for now.

 

[Volvohead]

Not necessarily. You can either buy an XLR to RCA adapter for $10, or have custom-terminated XLR to RCA cables made. It's no biggie. There's nothing wrong with the old Classic. I've still got three of them, and you can at least read them from across the room. They also benefit from a PSU upgrade, even if it's an upgrade to a $19 Touch PSU. The old Classic wallwarts were NOISY. If you want to try something completely different at the entry level, also consider this: http://www.ebay.com/itm/DAC-WOW-S-PDIF-O...=item41586ede65 I have one for an "audio" computer system, and it's got a surprisingly good sound to it. Certainly better than the Classic. In the $2-400 range, there are a lot of interesting outboard DAC options. I wouldn't worry about echos and room resonances too much. After many years in the hobby, I've come to appreciate tonal fidelity and nuance more than any other attribute. That's why I came around full circle, back to enjoying 50 year old tube equipment from the golden era of Hi-Fi. Just don't get sucked into the detail and "transparency" trap like many audiophiles do. You wind up listening to the system and not the music.

 

[Volvohead]

Originally Posted By: sleddriver

When upgrading your 18yr old system, don't forget about the loudspeakers! . . .

Are you implying that 18 year old speakers are worse than new ones? Just curious.

 

[sleddriver]

No. However, no foam surround lasts 18yrs, even in an old excellent speaker. It all depends on what the OP has been listening to.

 

[sleddriver]

Quote:

This is getting more complicated than necessary for my purpose. As much as I like good sound, we're talking about my unfinished basement environment here. No matter how much money I dump into the hardware, it'll still not sound like it should due to massive echo and poor soundproofing. I think my good old SB Classic alone will have to do for now.

Good thinking there, as most of what you hear is the room, not the LS. If your room is an echo chamber, all bets are off. Your money will be best spent there to improve the sound. Acoustics: It's not just a good idea. It's the Law!

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: Volvohead

In the $2-400 range, there are a lot of interesting outboard DAC options.

Yeah, I've noticed. In addition to the ones you've mentioned, KECES DA-131 and Audio GD NFB-2 also seem to be well regarded in that price range. But DACMagic and V-Dac are easiest to find used.

 

[Volvohead]

Originally Posted By: sleddriver

No. However, no foam surround lasts 18yrs, even in an old excellent speaker. It all depends on what the OP has been listening to.

Not all quality drivers use a foam surround. I've got drivers ranging from 5-50 years old (from high end Thiels, old vintage Klipsches, all sorts of small boutique brands, and even old Maggies . . . Magnavox, not Magnepan . . . from the 50s). Some use foam, but many use butyl, cloth, and even paper surrounds. Surprisingly, the older ones have held up the best. Foam surrounds were really popular in the '80s, until the problems became evident with it. I recall many an Advent owner finding that special surprise one day. Now there is a cottage industry to refit better quality foam surround drivers, so it's not that big a deal. Of course, sending out a foam surround driver for refit is always a good opportunity to judiciously refresh/upgrade the X-overs, usually the culprit between a mediocre or flagging and a good/superior sounding speaker. That's where most of the mass market brands cut corners.

 

[sleddriver]

Originally Posted By: Volvohead

Originally Posted By: sleddriver

No. However, no foam surround lasts 18yrs, even in an old excellent speaker. It all depends on what the OP has been listening to.

Not all quality drivers use a foam surround. I've got drivers ranging from 5-50 years old (from high end Thiels, old vintage Klipsches, all sorts of small boutique brands, and even old Maggies . . . Magnavox, not Magnepan . . . from the 50s). Some use foam, but many use butyl, cloth, and even paper surrounds. Surprisingly, the older ones have held up the best.

True. However, again, it all depends on what LS the OP has. Doped-paper accordian surrounds were also popular, mainly in vented alignments.

Quote:

Foam surrounds were really popular in the '80s, until the problems became evident with it. I recall many an Advent owner finding that special surprise one day. Now there is a cottage industry to refit better quality foam surround drivers, so it's not that big a deal.

I've refoamed several Advent woofers among others, including my own. Any air leaks in a sealed alignment result in very poor low bass response. Plus the VC is easily damaged since it's no longer centered in the gap.

Quote:

Of course, sending out a foam surround driver for refit is always a good opportunity to judiciously refresh/upgrade the X-overs, usually the culprit between a mediocre or flagging and a good/superior sounding speaker. That's where most of the mass market brands cut corners.

When I do these, I like to check the stiffness of the box. Often bracing is required to reduce enclosure ringing and depending on the alignment, and what was used for stuffing, that needs to be removed/replaced/updated. Also many that used chipboard instead of cabinet grade MDF need work to ensure a good, tight seal between the drivers & the cabinet, particularly in sealed alignments. If you want to go further, you sweep the drivers, measure their acoustical response and Thiel-Small parameters and verify they're in a properly sized box. Depending on the degree of mismatch, some adjustments can be made. If the driver response is marginal, you can (maybe) replace it or substitute, but then you might have to adjust the XO. Remember, there was plenty of OLD JUNK made as well, particularly LS's. Mass-produced LS's are made to meet a price point: Then & now. It takes time, money & skill to build a proper box with adequate bracing. And a well constructed box weighs more, so S&H costs are higher. Today, most mass-produced consumer LS's are very, very poor. The problem is most people have never heard their favorite music played through an accurate LS, so they don't realize what they're missing.

 

[doitmyself]

I'm glad you guys are enjoying this audio discussion, but I think you over looked my use of the word "modest" in my original post. My speakers and sub (Energy) are only about 8 years old, so I hope they are still o.k.. The day after Christmas I scored a Denon 1612 (one step above their entry level) that is perfectly suitable for my modest system and rumored to drive these speakers well. The receiver sells for $300, was marked down to $250 as open box, and I got it for 1/2 ($125) by opening a credit card at Best Buy (already canceled it). But man, talk of Dac's, Dacmagic, Squeezebox.....you lost me there. Shucks, I just upgraded to a cellphone last year....cut me some slack: So, will a DVD/Bluray player play my CD's o.k. to my tin ear? By the time you guys get done discussing it, yet another technology will pass by me! Everytime I look into this stuff, I swear that I am 2 or 3 generations behind in technology. Shoot, I still have a VCR! Take care.

 

[youdontwannaknow]

one word - Oppo. Coax v/s Optical ? Coax is the ideal way of transmitting digital. Optical adds one more level of conversion(electrical to optical) to the signal in a chain that is already plagued by multiple layers of processing on the signal. So if you are an audiophile or a purist you dont even want to go near optical. Sadly not many people understand much about the transmission of audio digital data. They tend to compare it with typical network data transmission and think "its all digital anyway". Not so. If you are really curious here's a good starting point to understand how limited bandwidth corrupts digital data - http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/images/st...-connection.gif http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/images/st...-connection.gif Similarly people dont understand the difference between reading audio digital data off a CD v/s "data" off a CD-ROM. Two completely different things. One guarantees data accuracy like "its all digital afterall", the other does not!

 

[sleddriver]

Originally Posted By: doitmyself

My speakers and sub (Energy) are only about 8 years old, so I hope they are still o.k..

OK. I was curious what you had. If you have foam surrounds (Usually the light-grey ring around the driver cone) look closely for signs of crumbling, cracks, etc. Also check your sub driver. If the foam is rotted, you'll lose the bass, the LS might buzz, which will eventually destroy the woofer. For best sound, be sure the tweeters are at your ear height when sitting.

Quote:

Shucks, I just upgraded to a cellphone last year....cut me some slack: So, will a DVD/Bluray player play my CD's o.k. to my tin ear? By the time you guys get done discussing it, yet another technology will pass by me! Everytime I look into this stuff, I swear that I am 2 or 3 generations behind in technology. Shoot, I still have a VCR! Take care.

Yes, a DVD/bluray deck will play your CD's just fine. You're not alone using a VCR. I still have the one I bought new back in 1985! Works great. Built like a tank in Japan. Currently recording 3 hrs of football.

 

[Volvohead]

Originally Posted By: doitmyself

I'm glad you guys are enjoying this audio discussion, but I think you over looked my use of the word "modest" in my original post. My speakers and sub (Energy) are only about 8 years old, so I hope they are still o.k.. The day after Christmas I scored a Denon 1612 (one step above their entry level) that is perfectly suitable for my modest system and rumored to drive these speakers well. The receiver sells for $300, was marked down to $250 as open box, and I got it for 1/2 ($125) by opening a credit card at Best Buy (already canceled it). But man, talk of Dac's, Dacmagic, Squeezebox.....you lost me there. Shucks, I just upgraded to a cellphone last year....cut me some slack: So, will a DVD/Bluray player play my CD's o.k. to my tin ear? By the time you guys get done discussing it, yet another technology will pass by me! Everytime I look into this stuff, I swear that I am 2 or 3 generations behind in technology. Shoot, I still have a VCR! Take care.

The touchstone of audio system design is matching and pairing, balancing off the strengths and weaknesses of individual components. You can have a very fine sounding system for very little money if you put the right pieces together, optimized for the music you listen to. The bottom line is if you like the way it sounds, then it is a fine system. Eight year old speakers shouldn't have any troubles from age.